Fight for your right to keep exotic pets!!

[liz]

It protects the owner.

[Polarn]

I just gotta come with some input here, I live in sweden where we do have regulations on what we may and may not keep, poisonous snakes included, to have a poisonous snake we have to get licenses etc, even some nonpoisonous snake, this isnt something expensive tho, just keeps you from impulsbuying an animal that do require hard work or atleast the awareness of the possibility you might get bit etc... when it comes to parrots, i dunno how it is in US but every bird we own that is CITE listed requires special documents, declaring it is not a wild captive, and with numbers so you can track parents backwards etc. (that is about as much regulations we have on what birds we may own... overall) the only birds that we may not have is native birds for some reason, well native to europe, the rest of the world is fine... dont know why it is like this but for some reason it is. and in holland birds that we have native here in sweden has been bred in captivity for generations, but we cant get one of them... weird but still... thouse birds we keep outside and feed em in the winter and watch them... then we got all regulations stating how we may keep our pets tho, minimumsizes of cages, weather you need more than 1 bird etc. you are allowed to have 1 bird... and the rule is kind of interpretable.. it ses that birds are to be kept in pairs or more... unless you can provide the time needed to become the birds partner...kinda not exactly but you get the point...
Our minimumrequirements of cagesizes.. well its teriffic.... sometimes, sometimes it seems abundant, the cagesizes is basicly the private area your bird has to have, so even if you dont keep the bird in a cage.. then you ned to have a specific room that is used for nothing except the bird... and the cagesizes varies from that requires a minimumcage of 70cmX45cm and 60cm high (for thouse who doesnt use centimeter that is about 27.6"x17.7" and 23.6" high) the larger birds like a requires a cage that is minimum 360cm X 180cm X 180cm (that is 142"x71"x71" witch should be if i know the weird measurements correctly 11'10"x5'11"x5'11")
I mean that macaw cage is a kidsize bedroom pretty much... While these regulations are put there in an attempt to create better lifes for our pets, it sometimes hinder people that would give the pet an extraordniary home just becouse they wouldnt be able to fit a cage fulfilling the requirements in their home... while birds neglected the socialtime outside their cages have it better in them than in smaller ones, but then I think the requirements should be even greater (wich they also have intended todo since they created another text declaring sizes of cages etc for animals in zoos, there are ALOT bigger.

About policing a community I think that is the best way to avoid to many written laws aroudn the subject, the intentions behind written laws might be good, sometimes... but once thee are written laws there is usually stuffs around them that makes it less good as well, lets say for example they stated a law that the minimumcagesize for a budgie was a shoebox... a lot of people would get a shoebox sized cage for the budgie they buy for their daughters 5th birthday or whatever, while if there is no regulations, they might actually get a somewhat proper cage for it... sometimes...

laws in all its glory... but their usually overdone and creates as many problems as solutions... But then, i grew up in "the safest country of the world" only with canada as a close runenrup

[kittyhazelton]

It protects the owner.

ok... so what good does putting a ban on burmese pythons do ME the responsible person who keeps their animals properly confined and handled safely? All it takes is some irresponsible moron who doesn't know what they're doing to obtain a dangerous animal illegally (which happens WAY more often than you would realize) and set it loose/bring it out and public/etc.

"Reptile breeders, dealers, researchers and exhibitors also can continue operating under a separate permit program, as long as they agree to strict storage and transport rules."
Just what a small-scale rescue and educational program such as myself needs... more friggin fees and permits! <sarcasm>
I can see myself being flooded with re-home requests for these animals and nowhere to send them. We will see an increase in the number of "released pets" due to individuals fear of being caught with them, and quite likely MORE species soon added to the restricted list. It's one more step towards total abolishment of exotic pet ownership. The very reasons they give for banning these species could just as easily apply to animals such as cats, dogs, horses, parrots, and fish. This is a sad day in the pet-keeping community.
As an educator who travels with some of the very animals described I will likely be forced to withdraw many of my educational programs from neighboring states due to the expenses and requirements that this ban imposes. It will mean even more requirements for housing,transporting, and keeping of these animals which will likely be enforced by poorly-educated ignorant government representatives with little or no training on the actual requirements of these species.
This is just sad, upsetting, and frustrating that this happened. I fear that it will not be stopping at "pythons" I hope everyone cherishes and fights for the right to keep all their other pets because we WILL see more of these proposed bans pop up in the near future now that this one is passing.

[liz]

I never said ban. I understand that you are a breeder. The same restriction on guns when you sell your reptiles. It doesn't cost a store to check a potential gun buyer. I know because I worked in a sporting goods way back when. A person who fills out an application and waits 3 days will be more responsible. A picture of the snake in your records will make them think twice about a release that could lead back the them.

What Polarn is saying sounds good to me.

[Polarn]

but then it all comes down to extra costs as well, over here the fees arnt to great, the wait is worse and the actual work of filling in the papers, i havnt owned any toxic snakes etc, but since your talking about guns we have a stricter policy overall concerning them, however if you "need" a weapon your allowed to buy it, no matter what weapon it is as long as you can prove a need basically. I do competative shooting off and on, wich defined a need for me to own a gun, however I had to be a member of a club and do shooting tests etc to prove that i knew how to handle a gun (these tests are monitored by competative shooting clubs) also needed to have a competative shooters licence. non of these are big costs, I payed 50USd for the course to egt the "greencard" and that included 1 years membership in the club where i took the course, the annual fee is 50USD so the educational part was free really ( in that club) then I had to be a member for a year and shooting my approved sets etc before I was allowed to apply for a licence to buy a .22 wich is basically a beginners gun. the licence costed me as much as the stamp on the envelope and the inc and paper used to print the forms... so basically the things around me being allowed to own firearms, the only costs I had was towards the club, the stateissued licence to own the guns were free... only payed for 1 thing in that area that goes to the state and that was the additional course i had to take in order to help out training police reqruits in practical shooting, wich is basically the only thing I have been doing for the last 2 years now when it comes to shooting, so I no longer own guns couse I have no use for them, I am contempt to attend 1 or 2 competitions each year with a standard glock or whatever borrowed from the club just to keep my scores in order to keep teaching new recruits where to point the barrel and to keep it away from my face when their listening to what I'm saying... basicly proper handling of poisonous snakes and guns are the same in my oppinion, don't point the barrel to what you don't want to kill!, make sure to keep them teeths away from you or anything you dont wanna kill when moving the snake

Anyways I know i usually gets carried away when i type so to summarize this: to have to apply for licences for stuffs don't actually ahve to be expensive, atleast not everywhere, here it isnt its more the workload that throws people off getting something that they wanted a saturday afternoon, and figure they have to wait a month for their papers to be processed and everything... then half the people dont even send their papers in..

[kittyhazelton]

I never said ban. I understand that you are a breeder. The same restriction on guns when you sell your reptiles. It doesn't cost a store to check a potential gun buyer. I know because I worked in a sporting goods way back when. A person who fills out an application and waits 3 days will be more responsible. A picture of the snake in your records will make them think twice about a release that could lead back the them.

What Polarn is saying sounds good to me.

They're passing a BAN. They are adding them to the Lacey Act, which will prohibit all import/export and interstate transport of them. This will basically kill the ability for any private individuals to have them, move with them, or purchase them. The article states they will allow "permits" but there has been no issue on what kind of permits, the fees involved, or who they will consider will "qualify" for said permit.
If it were just a regulation for imposing a permit or background check to possess these animals, such as with gun laws that would be one thing... but this is a country-wide regulation that will essentially ban all private ownership.

[liz]

Well - that is excessive.

[Polarn]

I must say i prefer regulations and rules over total bans... Some bans just seems silly, like the ban we have here against keeping exotic crayfishes in tanks.. Becouse of the threat of them being released into the habitat of our native ones... Where they btw won't be able to survive and can't crossbreed with our to create a mix that might be able to survive...

[GlassOnion]

Polarn, those regulations you posted regarding pet birds- cage size requirements, living conditions, etc, are those legal Swedish regulations that you have to follow in order to acquire a bird? How does the government go about checking that?

[Polarn]

they are legal requirements that you have to follow in order to be allowed to keep your bird, but there is no regular checkups on private owners, only time they do check (sometimes, not to often tho) is if someone files a complaint about someone they have visited or if they have been at someones house to bu ya bird or whatever and the birds has been in too small cages.... but basicly, there are no checkups... And I do know that the inspectors that do come out doent follow the cagesizes down to the inch, if they come knocking and you got tons of toys etc outside of the cage and the bird is loose when they come by etc, they most likely wont take your bird away even if you have too small of a cage, because they would judge the home a good home anyways. but they would tell you to get a bigger cage... I know they have an "animal police" in stockholm (the area i live in) and they prolly is working to get them going in the major cities in order to be able to make more homevisits to pet owners that they do receive complaints about.
Most common birds that has really undersized cages according to our laws are cockatiels (the cagesizes depends on the lenght of the bird from beak to the end of the tail, if tailfeathers are missing you estimate the measurement as if they were there) and a is about the same lenght as a yet you usually see the CAGS in bigger cages than cockatiels...
Another issue here is that when you file a complaint you can not be anonymous, well not if you file the complaint to the police. you can file complaints anonymously to the govermental side for them to try and check it up to then file a complaint to the police... And for some reason a lot of people just dont want to file a complaint with their name on to the police, you see some forumposts where someone asks someone else to call on an add to pretend to be a buyer and go there check cagesizes etc to then file a report... instead of just the first visitor urging others todo it just do it yourself. being a witness in court isnt that scary....

Anywyas unless complaints, no checkup