Parrots or Pigeons?

[Michael]

However, as you must know from being on this forum for so long that most people aren't like you and they put their own twisted ideas of how birds should be treated and act over how they would normally in the wild.

[dorp]

Michael, I just wanted to tell you that I really admire you.

[lwis]

This debate is similar to a "parenting stlyes" debate. Some people micromanage their children putting them in as many extracurricular activities as possible, some are more militant with their children, some parents don't let their children play outside by themselves for fear they will get snatched up by a predator, some put their children on leashes, some parents are more lenient and let there children have more freedom.
There are many ways of raising children and many ways of raising parrots. I think most parents and 'parronts' do what they do out of love or because they believe it to be in the best interest of whoever or whatever they are caring for.
There are pros and cons to whatever way one decides to keep a parrot.

It is pretty crazy how he flies so many birds at once. And I agree that they do travel in very small cages (the one with the greys could have been a little larger), but they didn't seem to be attacking each other, and I did not see any birds who were plucked or that looked to be in bad shape. Perhaps they have learned to tolerate the less than ideal travel situations, knowing that they will be able to fly and flock for what looked like quite a long time.

This is not to say that they have the most ideal living situations, but the videos may not necessarily show everything. It is really hard to say what the best life would be for a pet parrot. Who is better off? -The single parrot who has a big cage all to himself, with all the toys and human interaction he could want? Or multiple birds living in a house, with separate cages, separate toys, separate food, and separate play time? Or the ones you see in the video, who fly in flocks of whoever they want to fly with and seem to happily fly back when they should? Or any other living situation in between?
It would be difficult to determine what would be best for a bird that is not in it's wild environment.
We can, for the most part, tell if something is wrong if there are behavioural or visible heath problems present. But, aside from that, if a bird is showing content body language and is not excessively biting, we can only imagine that the bird is 'happy' or at least not displeased with his current environment. But only the bird knows how he perceives his world, I suppose.


As far as these birds not demonstrating the highest level of parrot intelligence or complex behaviour capability, who cares? Honestly, the fact that a bird has the capability to play basketball, or ring toss, or any other novelty miniature human activity certainly does not mean that they are any worse off if they do not learn them. Sure it's impressive when a bird can do some neat conditioned behaviour on command, but I think the motive for teaching a bird complex tricks is more of an egocentric one.
I agree that a bird likely benefits psychologically from learning some tricks and some trick training is important in order to have a better behaved bird, but the bird did not just start doing the tricks on his own one day. What is more impressive is that the owner is able to get the bird to do the complex trick. I am sure people are quite proud of themselves when their bird can display a desired behaviour on command. I am too when I teach my bird something. But do these birds in the video ever think to themselves while free flying around, "boy, I wish I was taught how to do complicated tricks"? Who knows...probably not. All I am saying is, that demonstrating a parrot's highest level of intelligence benefits the owner's ego more than it benefits the parrot. As long as the bird seems content, who cares? Some would argue that simpler and wilder are good things.

[Sparky]

I agree with Iwis. I imagine they don't care too much. Being able to fly in the sunshine is a heck of a lot better than so many birds I have seen- owned by people who mean well but don't know any better. Ok so it is really basic stuff but they don't look neglected (although yeah the cages could be bigger)

[liz]

What I don't understand, instead of putting them in small cages and taking them elswhere, why didn't he just open the door and let them fly until they wanted to return. I am sure there were a few who would have prefered just flying around the building.

It is amasing though that they did fly back. I wonder how many did not make it back because they got tired.

[macbrush]

According to an interview I have seen on TV, that's what he does every normal day, just let them out of the aviary. But sometimes he would take them out so that they can fly in flock going home together.

One thing to note that, its is very popular in Taiwan to freeflight their parrots. I have seen youtube video showing parrot club arrange owners to freeflight their parrots all together in a park surrounded by buildings.

Remember Shanlung and Tinkerball? Shaglung is a Taiwanese too.

What I don't understand, instead of putting them in small cages and taking them elswhere, why didn't he just open the door and let them fly until they wanted to return. I am sure there were a few who would have prefered just flying around the building.

It is amasing though that they did fly back. I wonder how many did not make it back because they got tired.

[Polarn]

where i live here in sweden (well about 10 minutes carride away) they have a big storage facility that is used for the purpouse of flying your birds in, the arrange regular meetings for indoor freeflight, last time they had it there were over 50 different species of parrots and 150 participants, someone even brought their toucan along. I yet havn't been there in person but plan on going there to hang out sometime when they arrange one. but there is most likely some time before I can bring my little buddy to such events, since I want to be quite confident on the recall first, and not only at home but in other locations too. cant wait til summer when the riding house is hot enough to let him fly around in and do some recall training...

And as for freeflight, I think there is a risk of predators, however I do understand people thinking the risk is worth it, some for their own enjoyment others for their beleifs that their bird will be so much happier that it is worth the risk of loosing your companion. I'm devided, i definitly wouldnt freefly a parrot right outside here where i live since I do know there are some eagles and hawks living here. However I wont say i would never go somewhere else to freefly if I trust the bird enough to come back. However I do have quite good areas todo indoor flights with 40ft sealing so I doubt I will feel the need to bring it outside... As for caring or not caring if you loose a parrot, well.. I dont think you can say he probably doesn't care becouse he has so many, however his beleifs are probably that it is worth the risk of loosing one to a predator as long as they have had a well flighted life... But then again I can't say he WOULD care... couse I dont know him... But yeah I do consider the transportcages to be too small for that amount of parrots...

[liz]

Shanlung was working with one bird that was idigenouse to that area. It was kind of like when I had Friskies (starling chick). I did not worry about recall. If she decided not to come home then she was where she could be with others. I raised her and let her fly indoors before I opened the window. Instead of flying off with the starlings she stayed with my pet chicken in the back yard and Chick Chick mothered her until she was ready to leave.

[GlassOnion]

Man, Sweden just sounds great!

[Mona]

Wow..Thanks for posting that. It was fascinating stuff....

My first thoughts are that he probably has a high rate of attrition. If you don't mind losing birds, this is a great way to keep them. The other issue is if they go feral, you might end up with problems with government authorities....

Different species are going to have different species tendencies that may not manifest until maturity (which for the bigger parrots, could be four to five years....smaller ones much sooner)

It is a beautiful thing to see. I have flown my birds in larger buildings for about a decade now and it is fun and very, very healthy. There is no way that you can convince me that a clipped bird is a healthy bird. Flight is a primary source of exercise and also means better socialization and better mental health.

So, on the plus side, this fellow probably sees less behaviorial problems than those of us who don't fly our birds regularly will see....but I also suspect, he has inter-species issues and there are probably some birds that he loses ALOT of....like the cockatiels.

Does he have a website?

Thanks!

Mona