Cuttlebone or mineral blocks? (UK)

[Pajarita]

I put out both cuttlebones and mineral blocks in the birdroom and I feed them broccoli every day (high in calcium) as well as supplement vit D3 for their calcium needs but I do give them a bit of 99% soluble grit mixed with organic soil about 4 times a year because some of them love it (the budgies most especially). I don't feed pellets, I believe they are not the healthiest diet for parrots, especially the smaller species, I feed fresh food for breakfast and a small, measured portion of a quality low protein seed/nut mix for dinner.

[marie83]

I put out both cuttlebones and mineral blocks in the birdroom and I feed them broccoli every day (high in calcium)

Can I just question this please, I thought broccoli was actually high in oxalic acid which actually hinders calcium absorption.

[Eric&Rebecca]

Yes that is correct... not well known to all but correct. It's not high in calcium at all. Calcium is only dairy and bone products and pellets.

[cml]

http://www.northernparrots.com/pollys-tooty-fruity-bee-pollen-perch-for-parrots-medium-prod4182/

I get the Polly's one. You can get all different falvours depending on size. We got a medium one for the big cage so they won't fight and in the quarantine cage we have a small pink one which George uses.

I'm not sure I believe all the bee pollen miracle thing but it's more that it natural and it has the holes for foraging.

I like that perch, might be ordering a few if the delivery from northern parrots works smoothly (waiting for a new kings cages, travel cage).

[Pajarita]

No, broccoli is not considered high in oxalates, it's considered medium and this is mostly cancelled by the high calcium content. Most greens, beans, nuts, seeds and other food we feed to parrots has oxalic acid (spinach, carrots and sweet potatoes have more than broccoli) so it's not as if we can actually feed them an oxalic acid free diet and, in truth, we don't even know how much is too much when it comes to parrots so, in my personal opinion, the best way to go is to reduce the high oxalates food consumption by feeding the items moderately and to make sure the calcium is supplemented correctly (easier said than done as supplementing calcium and vit D3 adequately is one of the hardest thing about keeping birds).

[Eric&Rebecca]

Its not all about the oxalic its also about the iodine within those veggies which also prevents the absorption of calciums. I'm not actually allowed to eat it because of the high levels of iodine because I'm severely vitamin D and I have calcium deficiencies this also prevents it. Anything I can't eat I don't feed to my birds as a regular food. If it affects my calcium and D levels it will affect my birds.

I asked my avian vet about this (he works with the London Zoo parrot and small bird enclosure and the Royal Zoological Society) he said you can still feed them to birds but not as regularly as other vegetables. Perhaps 1-2 times per week. He turned me to the bee pollen perches, the bee pollen minerals contain the vitamins you describe as hard to balance. He wrote a paper on calcium absorption in birds but he said you can get calcium in them by using lactose free dairy products. It's the lactose in the dairy that's bad so calcium isn't a problem.

If I can find the paper or get a link... I'll ask him on my next visit. Would be interesting to see.

[Eric&Rebecca]

Oh and different birds have different levels of absorption of calcium ratio to levels of oxalic acids. Cockatiels will be different to conures and different to macaws. So yes very difficult to know unless you know someone who knows the different levels.

[Pajarita]

Its not all about the oxalic its also about the iodine within those veggies which also prevents the absorption of calciums. I'm not actually allowed to eat it because of the high levels of iodine because I'm severely vitamin D and I have calcium deficiencies this also prevents it. Anything I can't eat I don't feed to my birds as a regular food. If it affects my calcium and D levels it will affect my birds.

I asked my avian vet about this (he works with the London Zoo parrot and small bird enclosure and the Royal Zoological Society) he said you can still feed them to birds but not as regularly as other vegetables. Perhaps 1-2 times per week. He turned me to the bee pollen perches, the bee pollen minerals contain the vitamins you describe as hard to balance. He wrote a paper on calcium absorption in birds but he said you can get calcium in them by using lactose free dairy products. It's the lactose in the dairy that's bad so calcium isn't a problem.

If I can find the paper or get a link... I'll ask him on my next visit. Would be interesting to see.

Actually, it's the other way around, calcium affects iodine absorption (which in turn affects the thyroid) and not iodine that inhibits calcium absorption. I don't use polen any longer, too high in protein and too rich in vitamins. And why feed them something they lack the enzymes to digest when you have other options which are more natural to birds?

[Eric&Rebecca]

Its just a perch that I have, its not like I feed him pollen. I do feed my bird TOPS pellets (organic), seeds, fruits, veggies which are as natural as I can get and they are all organic. The pollen just something they chew occassionally. This was on the advice of my AVIAN VET. If you read some of the other posts my bird is incredibly active and the avian vet recommended it. He is also a young bird. I have another cockatiel which is on the same diet but doesn't have the bee pollen perch in all the time. Also bee pollen is a natural product...

I use everything that's natural and good for my bird. I didn't say it was wrong but you're effectively saying what my avian vet says is wrong and I'm sure they are different opinions in the field but this is what he says and he has been practicing with birds for over 25 years. I'm not sure if you are a vet and as much as I like to take advice from others if that's what my avian vet recommends that's what I will do.

I do feed my birds spinach and green veggies once per week. The rest of the time they have other fruits and veggies. I occassionally give lacto-free yoghurt because they enjoy it, not particularly 'natural' but they like it. They also both occassionally have an eggfood supplement during molting because that gives them a nutrient boost and contains many good things to help with their mineral and vitamin intake.

Overall, I think my birds have one of the best diets I can give them. This post is purely about a mineral block I saw and wondered about them.

[Eric&Rebecca]

They don't lack the enzymes to digest it... its a natural product... which is why my vet suggested it as it avoids the risks associated with cuttlebone... I'm not really understanding why you seem to be accusing me of not giving my bird natural products.

I also give him natural bark to chew on from a natural bird store and every single perch in his cage is made from organic natural wood....

Sorry to rant but everything my birds have is organic and as natural as i can make it and quite frankly i feel a bit picked on by your comments when all the post was a question about perches not veggies

Nevertheless I appreciate your concern and comments.