I think Edmund's sick

[Eric&Rebecca]

Previously Edmund had a minor accident. (please see previous thread). We rang the vets and they said the avian vets weren't there but we managed to speak with the exotics vet who has small bird experience. She said birds will act funny after they've hurt themselves however minor and that we shouldn't worry but keep a eye in case he got any worse. This morning he wasn't really acting himself so we went to the avian vet, as he was a bit slow and puffing up. The avian vet was not our usual vet but a colleague of the avian vet at the same surgery he checked Edmund's toe, weighed him and checked the small abrasion to the foot. He said he couldn't see anything wrong. He said he wasn't in any pain, there were no breakages and he couldn't see anything wrong or any sign of infections. I explained that he'd been puffing up a bit but he said this could be because his leg is bruised and uncomfortable. He's not holding it up or limping in the slightest but that doesn't mean to say its not painful we should expect him to be a bit 'off'. He is going through his adult molt also at the moment and we have noticed that recently he is losing an abundance of down fluff and smaller feathers.

However, I am not convinced. Since we got back from the vets Edmund has slept or rested nearly constantly for four hours. He had a small flight out earlier but not with his usual enthusiasm. He flirted with my pony tail and preened on my lap. When he is resting he has his head in his wing and he stands on one foot with the other tucked away fully. He is also eating and drinking as normal in between naps. He's had pellets, seeds and water. He is puffing up quite a lot but he does this frequently during the molt because he is itchy and uncomfortable, he has occasionally been beak grinding and making some chirping sounds occassionally.

Our theory is that it could be that he is moulting, has been harassed at the vets and manhandled numerous times and he is just tired. However, we are still concerned and were wondering if we should call the vets back tomorrow and ask if we should take any further precautions or alternatively bring him in again. However, if this is the cause of this behaviour I don't want to make it worse by putting him under more stress. He does seem a bit nippy and grouchy today but he is known for being grumpy when tired and has been like this in episodes during his first molt. He pays attention to things and generally seems alert.

At the moment he is eating well, and not picking or being unenthusiastic about eating he has been moving between his pellet and seed bowl and going to his water occassionally.. He doesn't seem to have problem moving but rather just appears tired. His droppings are fine and there are no other symptoms that I can detect.

Our second cockatiel is still in quarantine and is exhibiting no symptoms or unusual behaviour. We have sterilized ourselves and then examined him too. I will clean both cages in a deep clean tomorrow just in case.

Also no tail bobbing, breathing is normal, no discharge from nose, no excessive sneezing.


Could it just be a culmination of a a multitude of factors or is this something I should re-question the vet on?

[Eric&Rebecca]

This morning he seems better but still not his usual self. He was making more chirps when he got up. Also he was eating and drinking and even played with his toys. He also preened himself out. The puffing up hasn't been as bad. However two hours after getting up he was back on one foot beak grinding he didn't go to sleep but he seemed subdued still.

I opened the cage door and he did come out of his own accord. He flew a bit and then started chirping singing and playing on the cushion. He been exploring and sitting in the sun a bit outside his cage. He's alert and he's been flrt

I feel really paranoid but there's something not quite right. Maybe he's still tired and molting taking its toll. He hasn't lost any weight and droppings are still normal. I've deep cleaned his cage today too.

Is there anything I should give him or should I just keep an eye?

[Michael]

What I said in the other post. When they are injured they act the same way as sick. Keeping him warm, well fed, and in a carrier for a bit was what I suggested.

[Eric&Rebecca]

Which we did.... but he just screams and screams and hangs from the top of it. Which isn't helping the injury or his health is he's stressed so I put him in a shoe box in the bottom of the cage with his food bowls.... got straight out... In the cage I moved everything lower as the smaller cage I wanted to put him in in housing the new quarantined cockatiel. I'm keeping him warm and I'm putting him to bed earlier than usual so he gets 12 hours sleep instead of the usual 10 . The avian vet said he's in no pain though and he said the injury is very minor. It comes in waves like he'll be fine and then an hour or two later he's acting really odd.

I'm just so used to this active, bouncy bird and it scares me. I'm probably just being overly paranoid because we lost our parakeet, Percy. I know its something I should let go of but I can't help but think about it. I'm going to continue the quarantine for more than 30 days just in case and the new birds vet appointment is booked. He seems a lot happier but his behaviour is just wierd for him. He got slightly sick once before when he got a very mild cold and that cleared up and I know what that was like. This is the 'the something I can't just put my finger on' feeling.

If my other cockatiel was to behave quieter and more napping then I'd understand that because that's the way he is and he's been that way since birth. He's been health checked as a check but obviously will be rechecked before quaranrine. Would something this minor really adjust his behaviour that much? Considering the amount of things they can hide that are way more serious? I mean he hasn't broken or even sprained his leg.... he's going around the cage fine and it doesn't bother him. Could it be that there's something else wrong and the vet was distracted by the injury when there's something else wrong?

[Pajarita]

If he is not even favoring the foot with the booboo, I doubt that this is was causing him the lethargy (I've had birds with recently amputated feet or legs and they did not puff up). I only put them in a different cage when they are VERY sick -otherwise the change is more harmful than beneficial as they stress out when exposed to something unfamiliar or out of the routine so I would cover his cage (top and sides) and put a heating pad on the bottom of his cage to keep him extra warm.

Did the vet do blood work? Because, without it, there is no way anybody can tell anything...

The other thing is the molt, any particular reason why it's hapenning now? Because it's breeding season in the Northern Hemisphere and birds never molt during breeding season so there is something throwing his circannual cycles off and that means the endocrine system...

[Eric&Rebecca]

Our vet did poop smear (looks at under the microscope)and sample (they place in formaline and other vials and send away, weight, and oral smear.At his 6 month old check he had poop, feather sample, weight and oral smear. As Edmund wasn't appearing unwell at the time and I wasn't taking him because he was unwell but because of an injury he didn't do a blood test because there's no reason to do it unecessarily without a cause. He prefers not to unless the bird is actually coming for being unwell or he sees something concerning, I bought him in because I wanted to double check his foot yesterday and previously for a check up. He says is can really really stress the bird out and a healthy bird can get sick because of the invasiveness of the test, he only does them when its deemed necessary or on request. He will do it at his year appointment though which is coming up. He explained, and i've read several articles on this that the amount of blood they take from a bird in ratio to their size is like us draining a pint of blood. They can tell quite a lot without bloods when the avian vet is highly experienced, not all of course for example giardia is not visible in the blood and only in the poops. He has done a blood test on our previous birds though when they've been sick and never found nothing in there but some minor bacteria in the fecal sample or he's found the cause on physical examination. That was probably just coincidence but I wouldn't say you can't tell anything without bloods. It can't hurt to have one though...

I saw 4 different avian vets for it one exotics vet with small bird experience over the phone, one in the emergency room at the animal hospital who told us it wasn't broken and referred us back to our surgery the same day, our usual avian vet (only over the phone) on the way to the surgery and the not usual avian vet who he actually saw yesterday. All 4 said a hurt bird will behave as if it is sick by puffing up and sleeping (as Michael said) etc but like you I said its not serious enough for that and the not usual avian vet contributed it to stress of the initial injury and being manhandled several times.

Cockatiels can have their baby to adult molt anytime between 6-12 months as well as being in a continual state of molt all year (although we don't notice this bit). A normal molt would occur at a different time but first adult molts for cockatiels are age based and when the hormones release. Edmund is 11 months now and has been molting for around 9 weeks, most cockatiel molts take between 10-14 weeks although the first adult molt can take longer sometimes up to 4 months I've heard. He has a feather sample taken too for this and analysed when we did his DNA as a baby He has healthy feather growth and has almost completed this now. He was fairly heavy molting up until 3 days ago. Every single cockatiel I've owned has molted around this time of year and both my friends cockatiels are molting now. They started a lot earlier than this (BEFORE breeding season) as its the first molt it goes on a lot longer than normal. As I've said my avian vet is not incompetent, he is well documented, published and is the registered avian vet for Dublin, London Zoo parrot collections. My previous avian vet... yes with a pinch of salt but I'm sure he knows what he is talking about. I have seen other avian vets within travelling distance, NONE of which I was impressed with. They were AWFUL.

Now for example he's eating after a nap and is chirping and playing. Its like it comes in waves he's himself for two hours and then not for two hours. He's just come down said hello to me climbed around and eaten. He's really really preening too.... like way more than usual. Also endochrine problems would be present in the form of constant low bacteria levels in the feacal samples (which our vet checks every three months, we send vials to be tested) and low immunity. Additionally, he would have lung/breathing and heart rate problems all of which are assessed at his appointments. Also this has come on in the last 2-3 days, i'm sure this would have come on a lot more gradually than suddenly within 2 days?

Nevertheless I will insist he does a blood test as if you ask he will do it so I will. Its just wierd how its so inconsistent. He is bouncing around like no tomorrow now and it has no bearing whether i'm in the room or not. I've sat with him all day. Its sooo odd he's eating normal and drinking like normal,in fact right now he's stuffing his face with watercress and some pellets. I've given him extra sweet potato mash after your advice though. It's like someone's hitting an on off switch all the time like nap/play/nap/play. Also the puffing has not happened today so much, only his normal puffing for naps which he has done since we got him and all tiels do and lifting feathres before preening as all birds do. He's very upright too in his normal stance and not crouched over.

I've noted down what you've said though and I will ask him about these possibilities at the appointment. Hopefully its just tiredness from the stress and the molting and the injury (he is a bit tender on the foot i've noticed although he's not favouring it). I'm keeping him covered and i've had his heat pad in but he doesn't really want it.

[Eric&Rebecca]

Yes on te molting thing I've checked this. All my juvenile cockatiels did molt at around the same time for their first molts as these are based on hormones and age. They all changed after their first molt to coincide with other times of the year but apparently the annual molt of adults is only theorized to be at this time technically they can moly anytime they like. Here is the link:

http://www.justcockatiels.net/molting-periods.html

If he was molting now as an adult I'd be concerned :p

I am gonna check everything anyway... and explain the my avian vet that I don't want to be paranoid.

[Eric&Rebecca]

Parajita:

Could you send a list of tests you would ask for in your opinion?- I'm sure he'll recommend them but I want him to do everything anyway. So Endochrine tests, obviously baseline bloods, giardia,

He's frustrating he so much right now because he blasting out Perez Prado at the top of his lungs in between eating and playing with his toys and flirting with my pony tail through the cage! It's almost like he's gone nocturnal!

[marie83]

Well Harlie has just finished her moult, I've never had a bird moult by the clock, they take their cues from elsewhere, temperature, light, water cycles etc all of those we can alter in captivity.
Harlie started mate calling before we got Ollie his heat lamp, even one thing out of wack can confuse them, its not necessarily a problem imo.

That said you know your bird, if you think theres a problem then you should persue testing.

[cml]

Well Harlie has just finished her moult, I've never had a bird moult by the clock, they take their cues from elsewhere, temperature, light, water cycles etc all of those we can alter in captivity.
Harlie started mate calling before we got Ollie his heat lamp, even one thing out of wack can confuse them, its not necessarily a problem imo.

That said you know your bird, if you think theres a problem then you should persue testing.

Molting is indeed something that is really tricky to understand.
Leroy had his first moult at around 7-8 months old, and it went on for SIX MONTHS. I was worried, did vet tests etc, but our avian vet explained that its normal, and that moulting with captive birds is hard to predict.
Stitch, has FINALLY started his first ever moult, and he is turning two years old in a couple of weeks. Its taken waaaay longer than I'd thought for his first moult, shedding the baby feathers. His coloring is coming forth very nicely now, his forehead is starting to become white , areas around his eyes are red, and his rather old flight feathers are being replaced =).

Anyway, if you think he's sick, do all the tests possible of course, just wanted to add my experience with moulting, because its very unpredictable and not something we understand well.