Quaker with heart disease

[Wolf]

OK ! Hey guys this has degenerated into nothing more than name calling, and the exchange of insults. This would be a good time to end this farce, Don't you think?!

[Pajarita]

I am certainly done. The woman needs help but I don't 'do' people, only animals -LOL

[sunnyskies]

I came across this posting while researching pimobendan. Though this is belated, Sam4life, I am so sorry for your loss. Please don't blame yourself, or your vet. I've directed an avian rescue for many years, and despite everyone doing their best, birds will be lost. Your Quaker had a condition; the avian vet prescribed what medicines have helped with this condition, but they did not save your bird. Most birds with heart conditions cannot be saved, they can only be bought a bit more time. Pimobendan does help strengthen the heart and furosemide does cause excess fluid, which can gather in a number of places in the body of the bird, to be excreted. The excess fluid is very hard on the heart's function, so these drugs used together tends to be complementary. Eventually, most birds with heart issues will have fluid back up into the lungs--you'll hear the rasp. At that point, the bird does not have much time left, no matter what the meds.

I was startled to read about Pajarita, as indeed, I actually know the real name of this person--as do many in the avian rescue community. What many on this forum don't know is that she repeatedly allowed untested birds into her already overcrowded bird room (yes, I was there)--despite being given funds to pay for testing! Psittacosis did indeed kill many of her birds--I still have her emails to prove this. She did not seek veterinary care when birds became ill; she did not seek it until a good number had died. She blamed everyone but herself, sadly. And yet, she took birds in from anyone, and did not test them. The Upstate Rescue she refers to did indeed test every bird they let in--all were negative and they had no outbreak, of course. Several of us tried to help this person, mainly to help the birds, but in the end she rejected help. Shortly after being investigated by the State of Pennsylvania because of the outbreak, this person lost her home and moved in with her daughter. I have heartbreaking emails from her to substantiate every word I have said here--those birds did suffer terribly. So indeed, Sam4life, this person has no place in condescending to you, or criticizing avian vets, all of who know much more about avian health than does she--though she has never accepted this.

Although knowledgeable from apparently endless on-line searching, Pajarita has a truly awful track record in maintaining the health of her own birds. Again, I have the proof. At the time of the psittacosis outbreak, she had thirty cats and about 15 dogs living in her home, which was unfinished, in addition to the terrible overcrowding in her bird room. Sadly, that is called hoarding.

On other forums, she also often upset people with her caustic judgments. Reading the very sad Quaker post regarding heart drugs, I immediately recognized the voice of Beatriz. And felt moved to post the very provable proof about this person whose very documentable, arrogant carelessness caused so many innocent lives to be lost.

My advice, after so many years of dealing with abused parrots, is this: always consult an avian vet as quickly as possible when something seems different about your bird. Please do not discard their protocol for one created by an amateur who is not careful enough to test incoming parrots. Rather, get a second professional opinion, as avian medicine, while improving by leaps and bounds, is truly still in its youth.

I am not posting this to cause trouble for anyone. But in advice forums, people need to know the truth about those doing the advising.

[Pajarita]

You are not posting this to cause trouble? You don't actually expect anybody reading your posting to believe that, do you, Linda?

I've never made a secret out of the chlamydiosis epidemic in my birdroom. Quite the contrary, I mention it often. As I have mentioned many times that I lost my house in Pa.

But you are giving the wrong facts. I did loose birds until the disease was diagnosed but they were not ''many' and their deaths were as terrible as any death by this disease would be. And yes, I was heartbroken over this! Of course I was! But I was not 'investigated' by the State of Pennsylvania, an USDA inspector came over to make sure the medical and disinfection protocols were followed as per their guidelines because my vet reported the epidemic, as she was obliged to do. This is what is supposed to happen as per their rules and regulations and it doesn't mean that they had targeted me as you are implying. And you know very well that the birds were under medical care because you contacted my vet yourself behind my back asking her to test the birds for Pacheco because you insisted (without even seeing the birds) that they had that disease even though they had tested negative for it and positive for chlamydiosis. It wasn't the birds that I had taken in privately months before the outbreak that brought the disease, it was a tiel from an upstate NY rescue that had taken birds from still another rescue that was closing and which had told them that all the birds had been tested -which, obviously, were not. I never, ever blamed them. They trusted you-know-who's word and that was their only mistake - which was also mine. You simply tend to have your own ideas about things and refuse to admit to been wrong so you kept on insisting that the disease had not come from the sick tiel but neither I, nor my vet, the USDA inspector or the epizootiologist agreed with you.

And there were no 'several of us' trying to help. It was two people, you and Marie, only Marie actually did while you were doing the same thing you are trying to do now.

And I did not have 15 dogs and 30 cats, I had 17 dogs and 26 cats and most of them were fosters for the dog and cat rescue group I was working with and went back there or into other foster homes when I moved back to NJ (and I had a USDA license for fostering them, too, which was displayed on a window next to the front door as they require). There was also no hoarding, Linda. You had been to my house a couple of times, same as Marie and other people, and you know very well there was no hoarding. But, if there had been, where was your concern for the animals then? Because, if such had been the case, you should have reported me! I had two USDA inspections to my house, if there had been anything irregular, the inspector would have informed the authorities, don't you think? Instead, he actually praised my birdroom and closed the chlamydiosis investigation after the 45 days of treatment. Mind you, I've mentioned all of these things several times on this site. I have nothing to hide.

I thought you were over your dislike of me but I guess I was wrong. For my part, I forgave you a long time ago. I suggest you get on with your life... you will be much happier that way.

[liz]

What the heck is going on. This forum is for the birds.

I have gotten posts telling me to stop doing what I am doing because I am wrong. That hurt but was said that way to get the point across fast.

While giving me info for my birds I have felt stepped on. I use the info and just pick myself up. no whining or crying about it.

I want to hear about your birdy babies.

[Wolf]

Thank you, Liz, that is pretty much my feelings on this as well.

Pajarita, I saw this post late last night and thought that you deserved the right to respond to it as opposed to just getting rid of it. I think that you did a wonderful job of answering this party. Thank you.

Now for any one involved in this the matter is closed as far as the forum goes as this is not why we are here. If anyone feels the need or desire to pursue this further please have the courtesy and respect to do it through the PM function or other means rather than the forum.

Sunnyskies, you are as welcome as anyone else to continue to post here just like everyone else, but I think that the past is just that the past and so please make sure that you have a question or reply in order to help someone who needs answers to improve the lives of their birds which is why we are here. Thank you.

[Pajarita]

Actually, please do not close the thread because the matter that Sunnyskies is referring to was between three people: Linda, Randi Marie and myself. I contacted Randi (with whom I am still in touch) and she is going to post what she saw at my house back in Pa. Accusations of hoarding are very serious ones! They should not be made or taken lightly, especially in public forums and about people who, like me, not only give advice but also take in birds with problems from other people (I routinely direct people to this site and I would not want to leave this matter unresolved with just a 'she said' type of thing).

I know that you, Wolf, having been to my house and seen my birdroom and all my animals, can attest to the fact that I am not a hoarder, that my animals are well-loved and taken care of - same as people who has belonged to this site for a while, like Liz, well know that I never made a secret of the epidemic I had in Pa or that I lost my house there but neither one of you saw my Pennsylvania birdroom so I would appreciate it if you allow a third party confirmation of what I posted.

[Sigmundine]

As a filmmaker and bird lover, I visited the birdroom of Pajarita in PA several times. It was beautiful, clean, sunny, and with good ventilation. A really great bird environment. I learned a great deal from Pajarita as well as the founder of Sunnyskies, who also had a beautiful set up for her many birds as well. They are quite different in their philosophies, but to accuse anyone of being a hoarder is a loaded accusation, and one that I must categorically refute. Edited to say, I am Randi Marie.

[Wolf]

I do not take the accusations lightly which is why I left it for you to respond to. I also requested that she provide me with her proof and have as yet to hear from her. Further, I have seen nothing to substantiate the claims that were made and yes, I have been to your home and your bird room. I am into being honest and I am into being as fair as it is possible for me to be. I do not judge people although I can and do make judgement about events.
I will allow people to make a post that I may not like or appreciate or disagree with and I will allow fair reply to any of this type of posting as well, I will not allow it to degenerate into a fight on this forum as this is not the place for it, as I said I believe in being fair. If there must be a fight over something then it belongs someplace other than here. I will not , however judge the person and as long as they can post parrot related content that helps others to improve the lives of said birds or have questions related to the same they are very welcome to post on this forum, and in fact I would like to encourage them to do so on a regular basis. I post on this forum in two capacities one as myself with no more weight than anyone else and as a moderator with slightly more weight when I am put into the position to act as such and I try to keep the two separated from each other. When posting as moderator my personal views are not what is used to reply, when posting as moderator I try to stay only with the rules as posted by Michael and when I have questions, I go directly to him for his point of view and suggested course of action, which I have done openly on this forum on more than one occasion, especially when my decision is questioned.
I do wish that those who wish to post such things as this would make their own thread instead of burying it in older threads, but that is a personal preference and not a forum rule so I will work with it as best that I can.

[Pajarita]

Thank you, Wolf and Randi Marie.