Help with Fumes

[jparrothead]

I hope someone can help me out here. We have visitors right now, and someone had a 'brilliant' idea to 'purify' the house with a small fire in a pot with epsom salt and 90% rubbing alcohol. This flaming pot was in the room that parrot stays in for just under three minutes and stayed there about 5 minutes after the flames went out. There was only a small amount of fume and smoke, if you can call it that. But naturally, I am a bit panicked. It only ever had a very faint chemically smell when I saw this and it has been more than an hour since all of this has happened.

Here is what I have done so far:

1) removed both the pot (now covered) and the parrot (Green Cheeked Conure, 9 months old) from the room.

2) Opened both windows in the room, turned on the ceiling fan, the fan in the bathroom (where the pot was most of the time), and left that door wide opened. I also lowered the AC from 80 to 76 in that room, to keep the AC moving the air through.

3) Set up a temporary place for my parrot outside, with large travel cage and his playpen next to it (and next to me) with food and water and bath.

It's now been over an hour since all of these things have been done, and more than 1:15 minutes since the fire was out.

But I am worried. After I found out about it I was ensured that it was 'safe'--at least for humans--and even considered an 'ecological fire'.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Like how long I should keep the air flowing through that room before I can put him back up there? And anyone know about whether burning epsom salt and rubbing alcohol can leave dangerous fumes?

I like keeping him to his schedule and he usually naps in about an hour right now, and I hate to throw him off schedule. I could put him in his sleep cage, which is in another room, but I think that could piss him off and then ruin that as a sleep cage.

Any advice or even comfort would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

JP and Darwin

How long do you think I should keep the room aired out like this?

[cml]

With lots of ventilation for an hour or so, you should be in the clear now.

As to the fumes:
Pure alcohol burns very cleanly, with resultant carbondioxide and water.
Had it been 100% alcohol, there would have been no worries.

It's the 10% of other junk in what you describe as rubbing alcohol that could be troublesome, is it a gel or liquid and whats in it?

The epsom salt, I have no idea, but I dont THINK this short exposure is going to be dangerous, and you are well through it now. I would not repeat this though (I know it was none of your fault)!
I googled on this burning epsom salt and what kind of (excuse me) idiots burn this and think that it will "cleanse" their home and purify the "energies". I would seriously tell these friends off for doing such a thing in your household without your permission (people goofy like that wouldnt be let into my home ).

Anyway, I think you reacted to the situation as best you could and I think you are safe this time .

[jparrothead]

CML,

Thank you! Yes, it is has now been exactly 2.5 hours of ventilation and I am going to try to get him back in there. I don't smell anything now. I'll change the food and water, just in case, but given the short amount of exposure and the amount of ventilation, I think we'll be okay. And your explanation about how high-% of alcohol is actually GOOD helped a lot! I would have thought the opposite, but I am clueless when it comes to things like chemistry!

As for the idiots, yes, well these things happen! Family, rather than friends, and believe me, I called them worse than idiots. They were apologetic and I don't think it will happen again! They love the bird too and felt badly about it.

But I do appreciate your help! I hear horror stories about instant parrot death and am never really clear about how long to 'air out' a room or anything, but this has been the first close call in the 5 months I've had him.

Thanks again!

[Wolf]

I don't know for sure but I really don't think that there has ever been a study that relates specifically to your problem The biggest reason for this is that this was an esoteric use of these substances and nowhere close to their normal useage. Because of this I could not recommend less than 12 hours of airing their space out, although there may be no use in doing anymore than airing until you can't smell it any more, because this was a whole house ritual the fumes are everywhere.
If your bird is not having any reaction then you are probably ok, but I would keep close watch on him. I would also inform these people that if they feel so uncomfortable and vulnerable in your house and casting a circle of light about themselves is not protection enough then they are more than welcome to leave. There was absolutely no valid reason to put your family at risk by such amatures as these are. And your bird is part of your family.
Alcohol usually is a clean burning substance which leaves little to no residue and the Epsom salts only served as a wick and really should not pose a problem. Just because a burnt substance has no noticeable effect on a human ,that does not mean that it is safe for a parrot whose airways are many times more sensitive than ours.
Just saw cml's post and also think that you are in the clear this time. I however will not knock another's religious beliefs, just because I don't personally agree with them. I do agree that their actions were wrong and not warrented, which is not the hallmark of a faulty belief system, it is however the hallmark of a neophyte and thus an amateur. But then, I also don't buy into talking snakes or into men turning water into wine either, but I don't knock those that choose to believe this.

[cml]

I however will not knock another's religious beliefs, just because I don't personally agree with them. I do agree that their actions were wrong and not warrented, which is not the hallmark of a faulty belief system, it is however the hallmark of a neophyte and thus an amateur. But then, I also don't buy into talking snakes or into men turning water into wine either, but I don't knock those that choose to believe this.

Sorry you took it the wrong way Wolf, I didnt intend it as to knock on someone's religion (if that is what this is connected to). I tend to believe in rational and quantifiable things though, not spiritual things which I personally believe to be mumbojumbo.

Is this forum getting more and more touchy?

Unless you feel offended from what I wrote yourself, is there really a need to take a defensive stance for the sake of it? I dont think that such a behaviour will contribute anything to the good spirits of this forum, nor this discussion! This kind of thing is turning up in too many threads nowadays.

[jparrothead]

CML and Wolf,

Thanks to you both again. CML, I didnt take any offense to what Wolf or you said, and I dont think he was knocking you for what you said either. I think this whole thing that my guest did was supposed to be meant in fun, and nothing more.

I hope no one has hard feelings--their own spiritual or religious, or personal feelings--because of my post and parrot's needs. I would feel badly if that was the case. This is a mature, great, helpful forum, and I hope everyone can be happy.

As to the area affected--the whole thing started in one other room before I knew what was going on, so it was confined to two rooms in a 3,400 sq foot house, so it didnt spread. I smell nothing--not even the smell of 'burn'--any more, and havent since 30 minutes after it was out. The parrot was outside with me, so had no more exposure. I still have the fans running and door open, so there is still some ventilation out of that room.

I will keep an eye on him though. So far, so good.

Thanks to you both, again!

[Wolf]

Prejudice takes many forms from race to sexual preferences to religious beliefs and I feel that if one accepts it at all then one is helping to keep it alive and so I don't agree with it. If you intended no offence then rest assured that I take no offence. I have been on the receiving end of prejudice and perhaps, you are right ,that I may be too sensitive to it, I don't know. Nor did I mean what I said to be an attack on you, it was merely intended to say that the action that caused the problem is a part of several religious belief systems. Too many people could be offended, if they chose to be, the news is often filled with it still and it makes a lot of people tread lightly. If the forums is changing because of it then really it is just a reflection of the rest of what our society is undergoing at this time.
There are some things that I don't like to discuss, these are primarily politics, religion and what bird should I get.
I may not have said this quite correctly but I hope that you understand what I mean.

[Pajarita]

Epsom salts are magnesium sulfate which is not combustible (thus the need to use alcohol which, unless we are talking about a country where alcohol is not regulated, would never be 100% pure as it's illegal to sell it this way) but it does produce dangerous and toxic fumes when heated ("Not combustible. Gives off irritating or toxic fumes (or gases) in a fire. Decomposes on heating. This produces toxic and corrosive fumes including sulfur oxides") so you did the right thing taking the bird outside and ventilating the house thoroughly. Please keep an eye on him and his breathing for the next week or so because after-effects could take days in showing up when we are talking about the lining of the lungs and air sacs becoming compromised. Observe him after flying and see if there is any shortness of breath and, when he is in repose (even in sleep), look at his tail and see if it bobs. If you see any type of irregularity in his breathing, please take him to an avian vet (but you might need to put him in an oxygen box for a few months to help healing).

Please tell your relatives not to use this product for purification any longer, it's dangerous to humans, too.

[jparrothead]

Thanks for everyone's advice!

As it has been almost 48 hours since the end of the incident, I wanted to report that things seem fine with my bird. He is acting and looking as normal as always, with no noticeable differences in breathing or bobbing in the tail. He's as active, feisty, friendly, and occasionally annoying as ever!

I am glad this is over, and my relatives still feel badly about it--this was apparently for fun and not a statement about my home being 'impure', which I guess is good! But they're not going to do it ever again.

It turns out we were talking about 2 tablespoons of the salts and rubbing alcohol--still too much for my comfort, but it may explain why the consequences were small. I think everyone learned a lesson here, including my making sure I know what's going on in the parrot's room when people are visiting!

[Pajarita]

Keep observing him for the next few weeks because scarring of the lining of the lungs and air sacs doesn't happen overnight, it takes weeks and, sometimes, the immune system does not stop when it's supposed to and continues creating scar tissue which reduces their breathing capacity (this happens to canaries and finches which have an air sac mite infection for very long, you kill the parasites and cure the infection the dead insects cause inside the lungs and air sacs and you think everything is fine but, one day, two or three weeks later, you notice the bird has problems breathing and it's because of the excess scar tissue that has been building up in there)