Suddenly plucking after 16 years: an update

[allys]

Hello everyone,
It's been several months since I first posted here asking for advice about my red sided eclectus, Roupert. I've had him for 17 years now and he was in perfect feather for the entirety of that time until this past November when he first began showing signs of plucking.

So here's where things stand:

We brought him to a very skilled avian vet in the early spring and she did a very thorough (and sadly) very invasive diagnostic: blood test, fecal culture, crop culture: nothing. She gave him the antibiotic, Bactrim as well as a calcium supplement but we saw no change.

My husband and I have gradually been trying to modify our husbandry practices but we have not seen any changes there either: we give him a misting morning and evening with a solution of aloe juice and water then cover his skin where he has been plucking with a mild aloe lotion. The lotion has deterred him a little, but we still feather lying at the bottom of his cage either when we uncover his cage in the morning, or when we get home from work. If we don't cover him with lotion, it's like a feather buffet at the bottom of his cage. I know there are health risks that come with the use of lotion (inability to thermo regulate) but the alternative is a pile of feathers at the bottom of his cage and I want him to keep as many feather as possible. Right now the plucking is primarily around his neck and little under his wings. If anyone can suggest some other kind of product we can spray on his feathers that will deter him from plucking (because he doesn't like the taste, I'm open to suggestions. I read on-line that Listerine diluted in water is an option but I refuse to cover him with chemicals that even the manufacturer says not to swallow!)

Diet-wise I have taken to replacing his Hagen Tropican pellets with fresh veggie purées: broccoli & banana ; red pepper & banana ; yam ; carrot ; ground beans mixed with wild & brown rice and corn. Plus, each day I fill a food dish with sliced fruit. At bedtime I give him some pellets in case he gets hungry throughout the night.

We are still keeping him on extended daylight hours simply because when a vet suggested decreasing daylight to only 10 hours, he was bored and obviously not tired, and just passed the time in the dark plucking. So, he's on 10 hours of darkness and more or less spends all of that time sleeping and doesn't have the chance to be bored and pluck. Oh, by the way, he has lots of out-of-cage time. In fact, there have been a few times where, just to experiment, my husband and I bird-proofed the apartment and gave him free reign of the apartment while we were out all day. Prior to leaving, we "hid" some peanuts in strategic places so that he could forage and explore. Each of these times when we got home, Roupert was either sitting inside or on top of his cage! He’s very skilled at accessing the floor form his cage and vice versa (we have a rope perch that acts as a ladder for him to return to his cage if he’s been playing on the ground) so there is no reason why he couldn’t have spent the day exploring. Not a single peanut had been touched.

We’ve bought him lots of new toys and they are basically ignored.

SO, we’re now looking to do hormone treatments. The vet has recommended a lupron shot every other week in a series of 4 treatments. I have read mixed things about these shots. What are your thoughts? The vet originally told me that the treatment was comprised of 4 injections then would end but when I booked the appointments today, the receptionist said that at the fourth injection I should consult with the vet again (a technician will administer the injections) so as to book another 4 treatments if I am not satisfied with the first 4. If after 4 treatments I see no change, should I just call it a day and leave my poor bird in peace to mutilate himself as he sees fit? Should I proceed with another 4 treatments or at that point will it be completely redundant (should change not be pretty much immediate?)

Thanks for your input!

Léa

[Wolf]

Before my replying to this I went back and read through your first post. One of the major topics was that of diet so here is what The World Parrot Trust says about diet:

Diet:
Fruit, any type but especially apple, pear, orange, cactus fruits, pomegranate, banana, forming about 30 percent of diet; fresh vegetables especially carrot, celery, green peas, beans, fresh corn and green leaves. Cooked/sprouted beans or pulses. Spray millet, mix of small seeds (canary, millet, small amounts of oats, buckwheat, safflower, limited sunflower); cubes of hard cheese, complete kibble.

I would think that there is a reason for them to suggest a kibble as opposed to a pellet. I can't say what their reasoning is but it could be something as minor as moisture content or it could have something to do with the ingredients used such as binders or something else. I do know that sometimes the binders used in some pellets can cause an allergic reaction in some individuals. Now this is from years of experience with horses and not with parrots but this could have a bearing on why your bird is plucking or it may not, but since nothing else is showing any results it might just warrant your consideration.
Another thing is that you cover your bird at night and again it may or may not be a factor, but you say that the only time that he is plucking is when he is covered, so have you tried not covering him at night. I have an African Grey parrot who is a confirmed plucker and she is now 14yrs. of age and used to be covered at night. I do not cover her at night and I do use a water and aloe spray to help her skin and it has taken all year but she is finally growing feathers again. I am hoping that this trend continues.
I don't think that I would be using the Listerine treatment that you mentioned either, if for no other reason than the alcohol content involved.
You mentioned trying to set up a foraging situation for him for when you are at work. I think that this is a good idea but if you want it to work at all you will most likely have to teach him that this is what you are doing. So I would make a practice of doing it after you come home for a while taking the time to make sure that he sees you do it and getting him used to looking about for these treats by helping him to find a couple of them at first and then continuing this into the daytime while you are gone. He has been with you a long time without you doing this, so he has no reason to go looking for anything of this nature until you teach him that there is something for him to find.
Perhaps this may help or perhaps not, but if you choose to look into them let me know if you have any results or not. As mentioned briefly I also have a bird plucking and understand what you are going through and if I learn of anything that might help I will share it here .

[Wolf]

It just occurred to me that you mentioned that Roupert liked to tear up wicker as in a laundry hamper, perhaps finding some baskets at yard sales would give him something to shred during the day or if you find some small ones you could put one in his cage for him to shred at night. just a thought and I have no idea if it would help him or not.

[Pajarita]

I am typing this for the third time and I am getting real pissed at the kittens that keep on deleting the whole thing!

It seems to me that your vet thinks your bird plucks because he is overly hormonal. This is a simple thing to verify, all you need is an Xray or a sonogram to look at the size of his gonads. But, if he was my bird, I would not waste any money on either one because there is no way on this green earth that your bird's gonads are a normal size after having 10 hour nights for years. Especially since he is an ekkie which we all know are one of the most hormonal species by nature! I know you said that he plucked more when you tried to make his nights longer but the trick is not to randomly cover his cage earlier, it's to expose him to dawn and dusk from beginning to end because it's the change in light spectrum that happens when the sun is rising or setting that sets their internal clock and, when you are dealing with a bird that has a screwed up endocrine system, you have no choice but to do it exactly the same way that nature decreed it should be done. And, if you turn off the lights when the sun is setting, feed him dinner and quietly wait for him to fall asleep when night falls (which he will do because melatonin is produced when light intensity decreases), and then get up at dawn to open his cage and feed him breakfast, he won't have an opportunity to pluck when he is covered. Sometimes, they do pluck more before they get better but missing feathers is not an issue to him, it is to you because you don't want a plucked bird - what is an issue to him is the chronic pain, unrelieved arousal and anxiety he is under. Eliminate those and you have a very good chance at stopping his plucking.

The other thing you need to do is provide him with company during the day - a bird sitter, a relative, a neighbor, a fellow bird lover, etc that could come for an hour or two before or after the noon rest to break the monotony of a boring day alone would do him good.

You said that he has a rope to climb up to his cage, why does he need one? Is he clipped or is it that he was not allowed to fledge properly and now he can't fly? Because if he is clipped, I urge you to allow him flight as the lack of it is a source of anxiety for them (you can't take away the only predator-avoidance mechanism a prey animal has and expect him to live the rest of his life happy go lucky). And, if he was never allowed to fledge, I urge you to exercise his wings daily.

As to Lupron, has your vet explained what this is and what it does? Lupron was created to be used on mammals and what it does is make the body produce a huge amount of sexual hormones until the body, realizing something is VERY wrong, stops production altogether. Problem is that mammals have a completely different 'system' of regulating breeding seasons so it doesn't work on all birds and, on the ones that does, it cannot be used long term (you can't keep on screwing with the endocrine system forever). Personally, I would never consider using it when the alternative is safe, natural and 100% effective, namely to keep them to a solar schedule and decrease protein intake outside breeding season. And I can assure you that this works and not only because it's nature's way but because it has worked on every single bird I've gotten.

[allys]

Hello again Pajarita,
I recall back in the winter you suggested that I manipulate the lighting situation in my apartment. How do you suggest I go about doing this? I live in southern Ontario: the sun rises at about 6:00am-6:30am and sets around 8:30pm. I have always covered Roupert's cage and he likes the routine. On the odd occasion if I am busy and I do not notice the time, Roupert will remind me it's bed time by letting out a yelp (it's really cute: he'll wait on top of his cage until I or my husband come into his room and say goodnight to him. Its at that point he'll either put himself in his cage or will wait for us to pick him up and "deliver" him to his "bedroom.")

Roupert's cage is located in my office where I do work late at night or in the wee hours of the morning so I do not see how I could leave him uncovered and let natural light filter into the room or dissipate, without disturbing him.

There is a rope perch connecting the cage to floor because Roupert often runs around on the floor. This way he can enter and exit his cage and come and go as he pleases. He has always had his wings clipped but my husband and I do our best to remember to get him flapping his wings each day.

One thing I forgot to mention earlier is that in the last month or so I have noticed that where Roupert has been plucking feathers, when new feathers begin to appear, many are coming in yellow. I know this can be a sign of either liver disease or a vitamin deficiency but as the vet did a blood test to check his liver, I presume that is not the case. Feeding purées has been a recent change; how long do you think it will take to see results of more fruits & veggies in the diet, and if the yellow feathers are the result of a vitamin deficiency?

Thanks,

Ally

[Wolf]

Been doing more research, primarily on the issue of feather picking ( plucking ), but also some more on your species of parrot. Thought that you might be interested in what their wild diet consists of, there is nothing to say what ratio of these foods was eaten but I will share it anyway.

Wild Diet:
Consists of fruits, berries, nuts, seeds of eucalypts and acacias in particular; nectar, leaf buds and blossoms.

Also, I don't know if you were aware of it or not but although the Eclectus Parrot breeds year round one of the main breeding times begins in November.
Don't get discouraged with the aloe treatments for Rupert's picking problem as it takes at least two months to be able to ascertain if it is being effective at all according to the Avian medical text that I was reading, I always thought it was at least three months, well live and learn.
Based on everything that I have just finished reading, everything that you have posted, as well as everything that has been shared and everything that I knew there are only three things that seem to have any bearing on Rupert's picking and all of them have been discussed here, but I believe in sharing whatever I find, so these things are, in no particular order, ( 1) Diet, particularly in regards to an excessive amount of protein, ( 2) Sexual hormones, primarily controlled by proteins in the diet and by the amount and type of light that is received by Rupert, and ( 3) Stress, usually due to the relationship quality between bird and human, this could also be affected by having another type of animal as a pet that the bird does not like.
All other factors that were contained in this medical text have been ruled out by the testing that you had your Avian vet perform.
I do have some thought about Rupert's problem and will be happy to share them with you, if you want me to do so, but I will have to do it a little bit later as I have to get back to work for now. Let me know, and I hope that this helps some.

[johnandfriends]

I am new to this blog but am learning a lot. I am a psychologist so plucking after so long makes me wonder what is happening in the family system? Look at yourselves and see what changes have occurred in the family before the plucking started. They may be emotional, thus invisible, and not concrete, so dig deep. Is there something going on with the favorite person? Is there an elefant in the room? Did the favorite person go away for work all of a sudden? Remember the canaries in the mine--animals have an uncanny sence of what is going on that humans defend against since our priority is to keep the social structure in balance--our own survival tactic--so we hide things that could up set it. But animals can figure it out way before we do. Has the household dynamic changed? Give your bird reassurance. I liked the post saying: "what the issue to him is the chronic pain, unrelieved arousal and anxiety." If it's such, how would you care for someone like that? When I adopted my rescue B & G, she started to pluck. I gave her a lot of positive reinforcement. Stopped the pressure to be the best bird. I gave a lot of hugs but also listened when she was needing space. Gave her confidence building activities and a lot of easy listening music to calm the transition. She has stopped plucking! I even put a little fether on a Crusifix (ok I am Cathloic) and praied for no plucking. So what I am saying no matter what religion, your energy matters and so keep the reassurance until things get better. The other suggestions are great. Someone recommended camomile which I did serve cold in the night dish as water. If she is regressing, start at the at the developmental level you thing she has gone to and build up to where she should be. Most importantly don't blame yourselves, you a doing your best. Keep it up.