Please help!

[Wolf]

Good for you and JJ ! I am still pulling for him and hopefully all will work out well now.

[Hookturn]

Thanks again guys. I'm still really worried about him and hope to have blood results in the morning. And Pajarita while you and I disagree on some issues, please know that I genuinely value your opinion as to my birds well-being. I particularly appreciate your suggestions and advice when it comes to what care my little guy should be getting. I only wish I could have gotten him it sooner and I hope hope hope and pray that the delay doesn't cause him any ill effects. This is now all compounded by the fact that I'm now 1500 miles away for a week. My wife is a vet tech for the local humane society and believe me she will do everything he needs and then some so he is in good hands. It's just tough to be away when I know how sick he still is. Thanks again guys and I'll keep you posted.

[Pajarita]

Oh, my dear, don't worry about disagreeing with me and the effect this could have on me! If I had a dollar for every bird owner that did not agree with me, I would have a lot of money in the bank My goal is not to have people agreeing with me but to plant a little seed of doubt so they do some in-depth research - because, if and when they do, they realize I was right and their birds benefit from it. (And I am not saying "I was right" out of arrogance but because I do A LOT of research myself and only post things that are backed by science and proven by my experience with my own birds).

The lesson to learn here is that, although it's necessary and good to trust your vet, nobody is infallible and even good vets have days off when they make mistakes so it pays to double-check on them.

[Hookturn]

Just a quick update. JJ is still kicking! He got the baytril and sub cue fluids. In an incubator too. He's gaining a little weight. Still waiting for blood work.

[Hookturn]

Talked to the tech but doc was gone. JJ got sub cue fluids and is looking and acting better. Supposedly the blood showed sugar issues which means he is likely diabetic. I can't talk to doc till tomorrow and I have so many questions. Has anyone here had a diabetic bird? The tech said that hopefully he could be managed with diet only. But they just don't know. They are supposedly going to talk to another specialist more familiar with these issues. Don't know what to think atm. Still wondering why his swab showed infection. Maybe it's related. Just worried and confused but he's acting better at least.

[liz]

That is so good to hear.

[marie83]

Glad to hear he has gained a little weight that's always a good sign. Fingers crossed for further improvement.

[Wolf]

Talked to the tech but doc was gone. JJ got sub cue fluids and is looking and acting better. Supposedly the blood showed sugar issues which means he is likely diabetic. I can't talk to doc till tomorrow and I have so many questions. Has anyone here had a diabetic bird? The tech said that hopefully he could be managed with diet only. But they just don't know. They are supposedly going to talk to another specialist more familiar with these issues. Don't know what to think atm. Still wondering why his swab showed infection. Maybe it's related. Just worried and confused but he's acting better at least.

After reading this, I pulled up my saved copy of avian medicine, unfortunately it really didn't have a lot to say about diabetes in birds. It did say that some diseases and/ of infections can cause a temporary raising or lowering of the insulin levels in their blood. It also said that birds do not respond very well to injections of insulin. It suggests an oral drug called Glipizide, but only says that it shows promise as it has been used successfully in some cases. It also suggests that home stress levels and possibly an inadequate diet are major contributing factors to diabetes.
That is basically all that it had to say on the matter.

[Pajarita]

Can you post exactly what the glucose level was when he was tested? That would help a lot because what is considered high in mammals, it's not in birds (they have twice and up to four times higher glucose levels normally). Also, just because the glucose level was high, it does not necessarily mean diabetes because stress (and a sick bird is a stressed out bird), liver disease, and infection causes this level to rise, too (as well as lack of exercise and dehydration which your bird also had). I would suggest they treat the infection first and, once they know for a fact this is cured, then and only then they take more blood to check the glucose level because, for all anybody knows at this point in time, it could have been high from other reasons.

Now, as to diabetes, yes, glipizide is been used with promising results which is fortunate as insulin does nothing for birds because their diabetes is not caused by their pancreas not producing any or enough insulin (as it is in mammals), it's caused by the bird's liver producing too much of a hormone called glucagon which is supposed to be made only when the glucose level in the blood goes too low but, instead, is produced all the time so the bird ends up with too much glucose.

[liz]

That means:
No fruit (too high in sugar)
Reduced carbs (they turn to sugar when digested)
Plenty of summer vegetable (winter vegetable like sweet potato and some squash have carbs)

Basically look up diabetic diet and modify to bird diet. Any place you can cut carbs will give the advantage of adding a winter vegetable.

It seems very difficult but my mother had hypoglisemia (?) where she produced too much insulin. It is the same diet to reduce sugars so the pancreas will not produce as much insulin to go into insulin shock. This is an easy diet once you catch the hang of it.