How/why is mating ritual/dance physically unhealthy?

[Wolf]

Each thing in life brings with it it's own problems, including birds. How much of a hormonal problem you could have in regards to a female depends on what her diet has been as well as what type of lighting schedule she has been on as well as for how long, same as with Pod. Still, I would think that if after the quarantine period is over and if the decide to like each other that both would be much happier. I also think that even if they don't get along well enough to be mates that they will still be happier with another bird of their species to see and talk to. Only the Budgies that I recently brought home have mates at present but I know that they are all much happier because of the other birds sharing the same living space with them as they can see and talk to each other. I think that this is why I have had the amount and type of success that I have had with addressing their problems as all of them except one were victims of some serious abuse. The one that was not abused plucked due to the previous owners not being able to give it enough time and this one is much happier too.
Regardless of any problems that you may rum into I will still be here for you and Pod and do my best to help in any way that I can.

[DanaandPod]

Aww. Thanks. Well, it is not a sure thing yet... I am still waiting to hear from the owner. But, I am wondering about the cage/ cages sizes. See, the add said that the bird won't come with a cage... so I am wondering first off if maybe someone near by has one to borrow till i see what their relationsip to each other will be like. I am not sure if it is or not good if they do bond to be in his cage?// because i wonder if he will be more controlling because that is his space???? He is in a pretty good size cage... I dont know the dimensions off the bat but it is rather large square like cage meant for a much bigger bird I believe. Is a bigger cage necessary? How much spacing between bars? Or are they all about the same spacing on all cages?

[Wolf]

Cages have different bar spacing based on the sizes of the birds that they are intended for. The Jardine's parrot is similar in size to the Senegal Parrot with the Jardine's being just a little stockier than the Senegal. Kiki, my Senegal hen is in a cage with 3/4 in. bar spacing. Although a 5/8 in. spacing might work, I would keep to a 3/4 in. bar spacing.
If you get the female and the bond after the quarantine period, then they can occupy the same cage provided that it is large enough. For Kiki, the cage that she has is 24" wide, 22" deep and 31" tall. This is the actual size that she is in the whole cage is a bit taller. This works for her because she is out of the cage a lot, but I wouldn't want a smaller one for her. In fact as I arrange for mates for a;; of my birds I will have to get much larger cages for them, I estimate about $5,000 outlay for new cages for mine.
If they bond you may have to work a little harder to maintain the level of bonding that you currently have with Pod, but you will see that in the long run it will be well worth it.
Originally, I didn't intend to have any birds, but I just could not turn my back on the ones that I now have, but because they don't have mates, I know that they will be much better off as soon as I can remedy this problem for them.
I will send the information that I promised soon. I am currently going through what I have to find the least technologically worded that I have.

[Pajarita]

The female Jardine in Manhattan is not the same species as yours, she is a Lesser Jardine, same as my BabyBoyd (I saw the ad and was mighty tempted to take her myself even though I am looking for a male myself so, if, for one reason or another, you ever decide to rehome your Pod and I still haven't found a mate for my Baby, please keep me in mind). I don't think you will be able to get away with just borrowing a cage because, for one thing, you don't know if they will ever mate-bond which is the only way you could put them together (birds can companion-bond and be content with that but, when it's only 'companion' you can't put them in the same cage), and, for another, even if they do, you don't really know how long it will take so the person who is lending you the cage has to be willing to wait a year for it - in which case, it might as well be a gift.

I don't think it will take a year for him to get his endocrine system back in tune with the seasons. I've had only one bird lasting that long and it was a female lovebird which had been used as a breeder for 9 years (lovebirds are VERY hormonal little birds but jardines are not). Of course, it all depends on how faithfully you follow the guidelines.

I don't know the actual percentage of protein jardines are supposed to eat, there aren't any studies about them (as far as I know). We know that amazons need 17% but only during breeding season and that tiels need between 11% and 15% as an adult maintenance diet. Roudybush says 'maybe 15%' (the study was on chicks, not adults) but there is another, more recent study that tested groups at 11%, 20 and 30% and found that only the ones fed 11% showed no liver degeneration (and this was only an 11 month study -Lord knows what happens after years!). Usually (and this is a stretch because one should never make this kind of blanket statement about so many different species), African species would seem to stand a bit higher protein than the ones from South/Central America but this doesn't really help when one wants to get a specific percentage, does it?

As to fat content in cockatiels diets... well, I've kind of given up on finding out what is too little or too much for the simple reason that it all goes back to level of activity as well as whether other nutrients (biotin, choline, inositol and methionine) are present and balanced in the overall diet. Fat is a tricky subject, even more so than protein, because, like protein, it's absolutely necessary for life but, unlike protein (always talking about vegetable protein, never animal), there is 'good' fat and there is 'bad' fat PLUS it depends on the other nutrients whether it's metabolized properly or ends up as a fatty nodule in the liver. I just kind of play it by ear and keep it kind of low - and it has worked so far because even birds with severe fatty liver have lasted much longer than the vets have predicted.

[Wolf]

Please allow me to complicate this even further, if a bird is on a high energy diet consisting of mostly carbohydrates they can still get fatty liver disease if they don't get enough exercise. Just learned this one in the last 48 hours. Again there are no studies that I know of to say how much is too much.

[Pajarita]

Correct, high carbs do end up in the liver but this is mostly true of simple carbs, complex ones are not bad (and that's why pellets with simple sugars are so bad for them).

[DanaandPod]

How does someone know if the parrots have bonded beyond just "companions" so that they can be put in the same cage???? And, is there anything someone can do to try and coax this process along? What is the actual difference between these parrots and will it matter in bonding? via Lesser Jardine
I plan to get Topps for his pellets. But, I do not know if its possible to wean him from the sugar/fruit zupreem which he loves... but i can limit it since it is in his fave foraging toy. I also like this set up because its at his lowest perch which is a large sand. It keeps his nails trim to be on there with his food filled toy.
Pine nuts are good right? He just had his first taste of them tonight....
I am really hoping for this other Jardines bird! But, the owner want a face to face interview which i will have to travel to do so... and am in the process frantically to get some gigs to get some cash to make this happen... get a cage etc. (no idea why she doesnt come with a cage but oh well...)
I really want this to happen.

[DanaandPod]

This is Pod's cage now... I took this by phone before covering him up for the evening...

[Pajarita]

Oh, you'll know if they mate-bond, don't worry about that. A companion bird is one that they get along with so you would not see any type of aggression toward each other, they would stand on the same perch, share a plate of food, and might, on occasion, preen each other but when they mate-bond they are always together, even sleep leaning against each other, preen and kiss all the time, the male would be protective of the hen and be very gentle and loving toward her - even allow her to take food from his beak and, during hormonal periods, feed her in the beak and do the mating dance for her.

[Wolf]

Without something of known size, I can't really tell much about the cage size. Even a sheet of typing paper would allow me to figure out the cage size as long as it is placed on the front and again on one of the sides because I know the measurements of the sheet of typing paper. A one dollar bill placed so that its length runs across the bar spacing would also work if you don't has a ruler of some type.
I figure roughly 4 times the length of the bird to be the minimum width and length for that bird and then double that for two birds. From those minimums I always recommend that you get as large of a cage as you can get to fit in the room and through the door. Which means that unless you have a double door to go through that you are limited to a maximum size in one direction of 36 inches, because that is the max. size of a single door although some of the older homes the doorway is only 32 inches wide.