Pionus - Constant Regurgitation / Sour crop??

[flappybird]

So I mentioned this in the thread for my introductory post, but Luna has not quit regurgitating. She does it constantly, no matter what is happening. I thought she had quit the frequency in the past week but now that I've been with her constantly for the whole weekend, I think that maybe I just wasn't around enough to see it happen.

Vet asked me if she regurgitates ON things, like her toys, cage, or me, but she doesn't, she just does it and re-eats it, over and over again. The only time it gets on anything is when she shakes her head to clear her beak which she does every once in a while but not constantly.

Aside from this she has been very happy and not showing any of her usual signs of stress or nervousness all weekend, she has been fantastic these past few days, and we're getting along really, really well.

Vet's recommendation was to feed her probiotics which he gave me, (based on the fact that she had slightly elevated levels of yeast in her poop) which I've been doing everyday. His other recommendation was to feed mostly pellets (specifically Harrisons, which I will get at some point since I still have a bunch of Roudybush) and supplement with some fresh foods but only like 20-30%. As I mentioned in a different post, I'm skeptical of this advice even coming from a vet because of everything I've read from experienced parrot owners. Now I'm wondering if I should just follow his advice anyway to see if things get better. Basically, he wants to try that in order to stabilize her diet and have it not be so varied, and check her again in 3-4 months. I'm worried that I will have made a stupid decision by not following his advice and having to admit it on our next visit.

I'm starting to get really paranoid that this will turn into something like sour crop or get worse and that I won't notice. I also noticed this weekend that Luna is eating ALOT. I'm starting to suspect that she is overeating and maybe that's why she's regurgitating so much.

While we're on that topic, it's still unclear how much I'm supposed to be feeding at a time, although I have greatly reduced the amount from when I first got her in order to reduce waste and see if she actually eats any of it. She is mostly finishing her meals now, and I would say that the amount total per serving is about a tablespoon or a bit more. These last two days I have been giving her a snack of some fruits midday that she eats over some time, instead of leaving pellets in her cage. She devoured that too.

I have yet to follow Wolf's apple cider advice, but that's just because I haven't had a chance to go grab it. Still intend on doing that. I'm also going to purchase a scale soon so I can weigh her at home just in case anything is actually amiss.

Anything I'm missing here?? Is there such a thing as overeating causing excessive regurgitation? Is there such a thing as her being so happy to be near me all day that she can't quit "displaying"? What are your suspicions / should I follow vet's advice?

[flappybird]

Just a small addition - she seems to be doing it a lot more tonight than ever before. The last thing she ate was a small piece of corn on the cob (less than an inch wide) that I made her work for (it was tied up in a coffee filter like Wolf suggested) and she seemed to enjoy a whole bunch. But she's bringing up gobs of it that are getting everywhere, she even goes back to pick at the gloopy bits that fell out of her mouth to eat them again. I'm not grossed out, I'm just a bit worried. (She's sitting on the windowsill in the corner (towards her sleepy time she tends to sit in the corner) just regurgitating away. I'm putting her to bed soon I just don't want to wake up to a catastrophe.

[Wolf]

I am sure that overeating would be a cause for this excessive regurgitation and that would imply some food related trauma when the bird was still a baby and most likely to have occurred prior to and/or during the weaning process. It could also suggest that their is some genetic malfunction, at least in my mind. But by using the available information that you gave us, I would strongly consider that a yeast infection is the culprit in this case. The strongest clue to me is the reaction to eating the corn. Corn is one of the big no eat foods for humans with a systemic yeast infection.
I am not a vet, nor am I trained as one, this is just my personal opinion on this matter.

[flappybird]

I am sure that overeating would be a cause for this excessive regurgitation and that would imply some food related trauma when the bird was still a baby and most likely to have occurred prior to and/or during the weaning process. It could also suggest that their is some genetic malfunction, at least in my mind. But by using the available information that you gave us, I would strongly consider that a yeast infection is the culprit in this case. The strongest clue to me is the reaction to eating the corn. Corn is one of the big no eat foods for humans with a systemic yeast infection.
I am not a vet, nor am I trained as one, this is just my personal opinion on this matter.

so maybe no corn for a little while... any thoughts on whether I should follow the vets advice and feed mostly pellets for a little while to see if that fixes it?

[Wolf]

I don't know what to tell you, I don't see how feeding pellets will cure a yeast infection unless he thinks that the bird is not receiving proper nutrition and that with probiotics and more balance nutrition will force the bodies immune system to kick in a fix the issue. I have never seen that approach to work, but I am limited in this type of experience. I would probably opt for a second opinion with a more proactive treatment for a yeast infection or at least testing to see if that is indeed the problem.

[Pajarita]

OK, let's see.

1) Pellets are not going to cure or do anything for a yeast infection. Avian vets don't really study parrot nutrition at all, they only cover general avian nutrition but in all the text books I have this chapter is very small and geared more toward poultry than anything else.

2) Probiotics are good for birds and they would 'balance out' the good against the bad bacteria but they will not cure a yeast infection (ACV with the mother would help).

3) The 'problem' with yeast and corn is only in dry corn, not the fresh one.

4) Sour crop only happens to babies, not to adults. What adults do get are fungal infections.

5) I doubt overeating would cause the bird to regurgitate constantly. I guess that babies that were not weaned properly could develop some sort of an eating disorder similar to bulimia but, if they have, I've never heard of it.

Now, questions:

How long have you had her? (she could still be super hormonal - you are keeping her at a strict solar schedule and are not free-feeding high protein, right?)

Have you been weighing her regularly? (is she at a good weight and has there been any weight loss?)

Did your vet do a choanal swab for cultures? (this would tell you if there is a fungal infection in there)

Are her poops normal?

[Wolf]

ACV with the mother on it is the same vinegar that I mentioned to you earlier, it is 100% pure natural uncooked apple cider vinegar.

[Pajarita]

Yes, exactly so. It's the unpasteurized and unfiltered one and it's really excellent for them - especially if they have any kind of 'weird' digestive issue.

[flappybird]

Didn't realize that ACV was so helpful. Will she get enough of it if it's only a few drops in her water and she doesn't drink very much? Should I add directly to food?

I've had her just over three weeks, and since the first week and her diet change, her hormonal behavior has been drastically decreased (yay!). She hardly does the "clucking/mating" behavior/dance anymore. Yes she is on a solar light schedule, and I quit free-feeding seeds (mostly quit altogether except for treats and occasional), I also quit free-feeding pellets a few days ago as well. It is safe to say that the hormonal triggers have been eliminated or decreased successfully.

Vet did not do a swab, and her poops seem normal. More watery after she's been eating wet food, and drier otherwise. Same colors.

[flappybird]

Oh, and no I haven't been weighing her regularly because I don't have a scale, although I decided yesterday to get one because I'm unsure about how much to feed her and all that. Today was the first day it occurred to me that she might look a little bigger than when I got her. I'll be getting a scale soon to make sure I'm not letting her pig out excessively, because now I'm concerned about that too.. heh.

This may not be the thread for it, but on the bright side, she is doing beautifully otherwise. Only three weeks in and she seems really happy, and significantly more outgoing. She does best when one of us is home all day, obviously, she gets more time with us. She runs over to me if I call her with treats, and will let me hold her upside down for a few seconds for a treat (she used to be really uncomfortable doing that before- now she just sits there and waits). She will also step up willingly out of her cage for a treat, she does it for no treats as well, but if she doesn't want to at the moment, that will change her mind. Now she also climbs down from her cage to us on the couch by herself, she used to just chirp a whole bunch to get picked up. I like this because the more independent & bold she gets, that's a sign that she is increasingly more comfortable in her environment. Yay cooperative, happy bird!