Some questions about diet and supplements

[thesilversakura]

I just saw how many pages there are on my post in Taming and Basic Training....*ahem*

We're almost out of seed mix for Rocky and Peach, so it's time to buy some more. But I'm not sure if what I'd been getting was the best for them. It's called Tidymix Parakeet Diet, but there are some large pieces (dried fruit and garlic sticks I think?) that neither of them are touching, which is making me wonder if buying the Budgie Diet seed mix would be better, due to the smaller pieces. Here are the ingredients for the budgie mix:

Millet Hulled, Oat Groats, Mix Canary Seed, Brown Linseed, Whole Wheat, Barley Flakes, Chick Corn, Brown Rice, Red Split Lentils, Banana Chips, Puy Lentils, Garlic Sticks, Sesame Sticks, Chopped Dates, Diced Apricots, Soya Mince, Kelp Powder.

The Parakeet diet is essentially the same, but in different concentrations. There are more safflower seeds in the parakeet seed, and less canary seed. However, they do both contain soya, which I've heard is not good for them. All the other seed mixes I can see on Northern Parrots (the UK site I buy most of my bird stuff from) have large pieces in, which I know that Peach wouldn't be able to get her beak around. There is a parakeet seed with these ingredients:

Canary Seed, Safflower Seed, White & Red Millet, Clipped Oats, Buckwheat, Small Sunflower

But it looks too basic to me. Peach loves the seed she has at the moment, but there are quite a few big bits left over and I'm just curious to see if there's anything better I could be feeding them. Rocky does pretty well with the Tidymix too. Hagen and Vitakraft mixes look good, until you look at the ingredients - soya. Perhaps someone could steer me in the right direction?

Also - I'm going to buy some powder supplements for them, to mix with their gloop. But the dosages are so vague it's laughable. 'Small pinch, well scattered on food.' '1 pinch per kg of animal.' I've found a website that says this also:

'For these birds (listing weights of small birds such as finches and budgies) obviously use smaller pinches, knife points or consider using supplements on alternate days.'

Which just raises more questions. How much gloop should I put in their pots and do I just put a teeny pinch in each of them? What about the dangers of overdosing by putting too much in too small an amount of gloop? Considering it takes Peach ages to eat several tablespoons of gloop, do I put a bit more powder in the ready made mix, or put a small amount of gloop in each day and dose that? Sorry, I'm just so confused To me, it seems very unscientific. Can someone shed some light on this, how much I should be using? I'll probably be buying Avimix if anyone wants to look it up, which is a mix of Nutrobal and ACE-High.

[Pajarita]

Any budgie mix that is all seeds and nothing else is good (meaning, no soy, no dried fruits, etc). I use ABBA but I don't know if it's available in Canada (here you can buy it in specialized bird stores, directly from them or through Amazon). As to the amount of gloop, I just put enough in the morning so there is always leftover in the evening. I have been using it for 20 years (many different recipes though because I am always changing/adding/eliminating stuff) and all my birds are healthy and in good weight so putting out more than they would eat obviously does not make them fat.

The vitamins/mineral supplements are a problem when it comes to the dosages... I use them only once a week at a 1.5 to 2 times the recommended daily dosage because they are pretty much getting all their nutrition from the grains, veggies, fruits, leafy greens and seeds/nuts they've been getting daily for years so the supplement is just for the vit D3 and whatever little lack might fall between the cracks. And, because I add them to a large quantity, it's easy to calculate. Personally, if I had just a couple of birds, I would use the powder ones that are soluble in water. They are not the most efficient but they are the easiest to calculate as they always tell you exactly what the dosage is (the one I buy for the passerines is 1/2 teaspoon per gallon). The problem with vitamin/mineral added to water is that the longer they are in the water, the least effective they become because they start degrading as soon as they touch it - but if you take away their water when they go to sleep and replace it with the medicated one freshly done about one hour after sunrise, they will be good and thirsty and go straight for it to take a few gulps right away thereby getting it a good dosage while the potency is still at its best.

[thesilversakura]

The only one I can find that doesn't contain shell grit, soy, or dried fruits is Johnston and Jeff Expert Budgie, which only has canary seed, white, red and panicum millet in it. Or, they do a Cockatiel and Small Parakeet seed which has canary seed, safflower seed, white & red millet, clipped oats, buckwheat and small sunflower seed in it. Which would be best for a Parrotlet and a Cockatiel together, or do they require different seeds?

(Also found some soluble multi vitamins, yay! I wish I could get the powder added to food since I want it to be as effective as possible, but I'm worried about hypervitaminosis. It says a small pinch scattered onto food each day, and since Peach especially is so tiny I would only use the smallest amount....but I always end up wasting a bit of gloop even if I only use one or two tablespoons since she flings it everywhere and doesn't eat it all. Would a tiny pinch per serving be enough, or too much? Ugh, the confusion...I'm gonna stick to the water soluble ones. *sigh*)

[Wolf]

I like the second one of the seed mixes that you mentioned and think that a pinch of the vitamins once a week would be plenty as they should not really need much it is mostly just a precaution.

[Pajarita]

Yes, I also like the second seed mix - and although soluble vitamins have their problems, they work well enough if they drink the medicated water right after you prepared it. I have been using this kind with my passerines for about 28 years and I've never had a single one with avitaminosis, nutritional deficiencies, eggbindig or anything so, if you ask me, they work pretty well!