help. mystery illness

[Pajarita]

Yes, I agree with Wolf, it appears to be chlamydyosis (psittacosis is the old name, chlamydiosis is the new one because the disease doesn't only affect parrots as the old name implies).

I don't know if you quarantine your birds, how long you've had the parents, where they came from or if you have added another bird recently that might have brought the disease but everything seems to point in the direction of psittacosis and I'll tell you why. The symptoms are consistent with it as it usually starts with a respiratory (the pus coming out of the nostrils and accumulating in the nasal cavities as well as the eyes), the fact that some of them started to get better on antibiotics and the fact that it's contagious (not a genetic defect of the first baby).

Now, chlamydiosis is tricky because you need to treat with antibiotics (doxycycline in the water been my preferred method because injections cause too much muscle damage in birds) for 45 days so, personally, if I were you, I would follow a complete disinfection protocol (and that means not only cages, bowls, perches, toys, nest, etc but also walls, floor, ceiling and every single surface in the room where they are kept), treat ALL the birds for 45 days, keep the room VERY warm, at a good humidity level to help with the healing and a super large air purifier which filters would have to be soaked in a bleach solution (because the disease spreads through aerosolized dried poop) and, I am sorry to say, I would seriously consider putting the little one down. He is VERY VERY sick, my dear, and, even if he gets better, I doubt he will ever be healthy. I'll be honest with you, I would try to save him but I am sucker for punishment so you can't go by me! The problem with chlamydiosis is that both the disease as well as the long antibiotic treatment damage the liver. Add this to the fact that you will need to treat these birds every two years and you have a bird that will have serious liver problems. I would also consider not giving away or selling these babies as well as not breeding them. Chlamydiosis can recur. I am not sure whether this is true or not but it is believed that birds that were sick and got better would, in times of stress, shed it and infect other birds as well as possibly re-infect themselves.

I am so very sorry! I had a chlamydiosis epidemic in my birdroom years ago and it was one of the worst experiences of my life so I well know what you are going through!

[bheart80]

If you are going to go through a private lab, then you need to contact the lab for information on proper collection of, packaging and shipping of the sample as failure to do one thing correctly can ruin the test results.

Presumably in the sample collection kit, or I can call and ask. Still waiting for it though. 3-5 days delivery, and 6 days now.

Yes, I agree with Wolf, it appears to be chlamydyosis (psittacosis is the old name, chlamydiosis is the new one because the disease doesn't only affect parrots as the old name implies).

I don't know if you quarantine your birds, how long you've had the parents, where they came from or if you have added another bird recently that might have brought the disease but everything seems to point in the direction of psittacosis and I'll tell you why. The symptoms are consistent with it as it usually starts with a respiratory (the pus coming out of the nostrils and accumulating in the nasal cavities as well as the eyes), the fact that some of them started to get better on antibiotics and the fact that it's contagious (not a genetic defect of the first baby).

Now, chlamydiosis is tricky because you need to treat with antibiotics (doxycycline in the water been my preferred method because injections cause too much muscle damage in birds) for 45 days so, personally, if I were you, I would follow a complete disinfection protocol (and that means not only cages, bowls, perches, toys, nest, etc but also walls, floor, ceiling and every single surface in the room where they are kept), treat ALL the birds for 45 days, keep the room VERY warm, at a good humidity level to help with the healing and a super large air purifier which filters would have to be soaked in a bleach solution (because the disease spreads through aerosolized dried poop) and, I am sorry to say, I would seriously consider putting the little one down. He is VERY VERY sick, my dear, and, even if he gets better, I doubt he will ever be healthy. I'll be honest with you, I would try to save him but I am sucker for punishment so you can't go by me! The problem with chlamydiosis is that both the disease as well as the long antibiotic treatment damage the liver. Add this to the fact that you will need to treat these birds every two years and you have a bird that will have serious liver problems. I would also consider not giving away or selling these babies as well as not breeding them. Chlamydiosis can recur. I am not sure whether this is true or not but it is believed that birds that were sick and got better would, in times of stress, shed it and infect other birds as well as possibly re-infect themselves.

I am so very sorry! I had a chlamydiosis epidemic in my birdroom years ago and it was one of the worst experiences of my life so I well know what you are going through!

Thanks for clearing up my nomenclature confusion. I do quarantine, AND run new birds through Duramycin at the same time as a precaution, and even run EVERYBODY through once a year if I can coordinate everybody off eggs and babies at the same time. I keep very good records, so I know where each bird came from, and in the suspect parents, I actually know previous, and previous previous owners. PS. Had this pair for 2 years now. Half of my birds are actually my own offspring that I was a sucker to cuteness and kept, so I haven't brought that many birds in at all. I'm going to be mad at someone if I can find a definitive source bird.

I'm assuming your are both correct, as well as another expert I consulted who suggested I test for Chlamydia. But I'll feel 100% when I get test results. Should be less than a week after I turn around the sample. Nobody is going in or out until I get this diagnosed and taken care of. I don't have the heart to knock off patient zero, especially when she is so energetic. I've never seen a sick bird last so long, and this is the worst problem I have seen. She may be useful in diagnosing in case the test comes back clean, or even if she does pass on. Her lungs sound okay, but I won't be putting her in my ear to check again any time soon. The only time she seems in pain is when I work the nostrils and wipe the gunk. I was actually hoping she would pass so I could necropsy her and get broader faster results.

I'm fine to treat/clean/disinfect. I'm even good to toss all the old cages rather than miss something. Luckily, I plastic covered the walls to prevent birdie splatter. Also lucky, I suction clean the floors, not broom.

As far as the update, I had still been giving her eyedrops until last week, since so many people kept telling me that was the solution, but gave up. The eye gunk seems to be a lot thinner now, or not completely covering the eyes. It's a bit hard to say because I can't watch her to see if she is scraping it off by herself. The nostrils are still clogging. The cheeks are still big. The gunk itself is still as sticky as ever. Her energy is still the same (high). She's taking less handfeed formula now, but that could be either good or bad. She was completely weaned a while back, but started begging when the eyes got bad.

I just want this collection kit ASAP to get diagnosis confirmed and on to treatment.

[Wolf]

Even if you find a definitive source bird for this contagion, it is not worth getting mad at the person because they may also have gotten an infected bird that was showing no signs of this disease and once a bird recovers from chalamydia they may continue to shed the virus intermittently and reinfect themselves and other birds for up to 10 years, according to my medical books. This one most likely was infected by its parents. Because of the nature of this virus, it is also possible to bring the contamination into your flock if you go to pet stores that sell birds or if you go to any other place that has or has had an infected bird.

[Pajarita]

I agree. No use trying to figure out anything now. And I would not wait for the test to start treating them all, either. Doxycycline is tolerated quite well when put in the water (the dosage is 100 mg in 1 liter), it's quite inexpensive and, as it is a loooong treatment, I would start as soon as possible because the longer you wait, the sicker they will all become.

Also, although I've never found this info anywhere, it's entirely possible to have sudden death from it! One of the first birds I lost was a female Senegal which had no symptoms whatsoever until the morning before when she went back to sleep after breakfast. I noticed it and made a mental note to check on her that night but she came down to eat her dinner just like always.... the following morning, she was dead. Perfect weight, perfect plumage, perfect poop, good appetite, no discharge from eyes or nares, nothing but her going to sleep after breakfast the day before. When my vet opened her up for a necropsy, she found all her organs had been compromised -ALL of them! So no symptoms does not always equal no disease - and I learned that the hard way!

[bheart80]

An update pending more...

The bird started refusing handfeeding and passed a few days after my last post.

I took her in for full necropsy instead of the specific 'live' sample tests I had previously planned. I am still waiting for final results, but prelim results say:

-no avian influenza
-no parasite eggs in feces
-no salmonella

-liver minerals normal

-sinus swabs: = enterococcus spp.
-fungal - pending
-mycoplasma - pending

-the focal area of illness was confirmed in the sinuses and head/brain

other notes (from me)
-parents still no signs of illness
-new baby from same parents no signs of illness, just fledged
-no previously neighboring birds or babies of those birds showing any symptoms

[Pajarita]

Ohhh, poor baby! But you did more than most people would have... Personally though, I would not continue breeding them.

[Wolf]

Enterococcus bacteria is very resistant to antibiotics in most cases. It is a very common bacteria in the intestinal tract and therefore fecal matter. The thing is that I could not find much about it and none of the descriptions of the symptoms even came close to what we saw in your bird. That is not to say that it could not have caused it, but I don't know.

[bheart80]

Got another update, but still not final...

-immunohistochemistry testing showed Mycoplasma gallisepticum showed positive
-mycoplasma culture was negative

prelim summary:

-Mycoplasma infection caused primary illness, complicated by secondary bacteria Eterococcus spp.

-Fungal culture still pending


My notes:
-If accurate, mycoplasma was not transferred from wildlife, as my birds all live inside.

[marie83]

So sorry you have had to go through this. Have you had any more results back yet?

[Pajarita]

Do you feed eggs to your birds? Because they can catch it from eggs laid by chickens infected with it.