Healthy Raw Diet for Parrots Sprouting

[Leanna]

I do think that this argument has been blown out of proportion and it's best to leave it as it is. I never meant to offend anybody or even suggest that their problems were all in their heads, I simply remember reading about the gluten controversy and posted the links I found for the subject when accused of not doing any research. They seemed to come from reputable sources (doctors and such) so I had no reason to believe they were not credible. I used to be but I am no longer allergic or sensitive to anything and, believe or not, nobody in my family is but I can imagine that been sick for years and years and not having people believe it must be REAL hard! So I do think that both Seagoat and Leanna had reason to take the whole argument personally although, of course, nobody knew of their reasons until they explained. And I do think that, although Greg might not have meant it that way, his post just added fuel to the fire while Marie tried to make things better. I also did not feel that Wolf was wrong in what he said - and I am not saying this because he is 'my champion' or I his. I say it because, as moderator, he was right in scolding everybody (including me).

As far as I am concerned, everybody can feed their birds whatever they feel it's best for them. I am here to share what I learned through my personal experience and research. Period. And I hope we can get into nice debates without having issues all the time. Discussing and analyzing different points of view and sharing links is how one learns best so it would be a shame if we cannot do that - especially in the diet section, which is a subject where we are all flying blind because nobody has any real guidelines about it.

Thank you Pajarita, for understanding why I feel this way. I feel the same way, everybody can feed their birds whatever they feel it's best for them. I thought Greg was pretty astute and made a lot of good points. Wolfs scolding was not a problem for me, it was his censorship "stuff" that was strange, I did not care about what you used as a diet.

[Pajarita]

Good, then we are all in agreement and OK with the whole thing.

Now, if I may insist, Seagoat, I understand that you do daily mixes using, sometimes, the same base (did I understand that correctly?) but, if you could give us a rough estimate of the proportions of the different ingredients like, for example:
1/2 sprouted or soaked grains (and how long you soak them)
1/4 greens of cruciform
1/4 veggies and fruits

This would be very useful because, for lots of people, especially the newbies, is not enough to get a list of ingredients, they need more detailed information.

[marie83]

I must admit I find it a lot more helpful when ratios, percentages or weights are given. I do hate it when people talk in cups though, I have no idea what an American cup is measurement wise.

[Pajarita]

I thought measuring cups were used all over the world, am I wrong? How do your recipes give their measurements, Marie?

[seagoatdeb]

Good, then we are all in agreement and OK with the whole thing.

Now, if I may insist, Seagoat, I understand that you do daily mixes using, sometimes, the same base (did I understand that correctly?) but, if you could give us a rough estimate of the proportions of the different ingredients like, for example:
1/2 sprouted or soaked grains (and how long you soak them)
1/4 greens of cruciform
1/4 veggies and fruits

This would be very useful because, for lots of people, especially the newbies, is not enough to get a list of ingredients, they need more detailed information.

Soaking is variable to some extent. The temperature affects it. For anything that can be eaten raw you dont need to soak or sprout for as long. Any soaked seed is softer and less dry, so better for the bird. Most seeds and nuts, overnight soaking and then rinsing is good enough. you would continue letting them dry and then keeping them wet after that to make a sprout. At the point where it just sprouts it has the most nutrition and moves closer to a plant than a seed., I have been doing this for so long I just know by looking. The sprouting times in the original post is what you can use for your guide to get started.

I rotate my bases, it depends on what I have available. if I am making almond milk then sprouted almonds are available. If I am making pumpkin seed milk, then sprouted pumpkins seeds are available. I usually also have a soaked seed or sprouted seed specifically for them. There are premade seed mixes on the market that you can soak and sprout too. I am constantly changing my amounts depending on what I observe in my birds (moulting behavour, ex.) Also each parrot ate somewhat differently in the wild so I also research their normal diet to get amounts. For my Pois I make sure they get enough Selenium because Africas soil is rich in Selenium and the area I live in has no selenium present in the water, so I use raw walnuts for them often. I have posted enough for everyone to get started . Most people can just start out by adding more whole raw food.

The Parrots tell me lots too, there are a few good sources of selenium, but since my birds love walnuts, I use them often, for the selenium source. Gaugan the Red Belly, especially has a look on her face like she is in heaven when she has a walnut. The look on my daughters rescue Senegal was priceless. She had never had walnut and did not even think it was a food at first. When she first tasted it, the eye pinning, the excitment, and the look on her sweet little face was just priceless. I rotate nuts too. My two pois are from different areas of Africa. My Red Belly, will only eat, 4 fruits..... apples green grapes, yellow cherries, and papaya, so she gets more vegetables because she will eat a lot of different vegetables.

[seagoatdeb]

I must admit I find it a lot more helpful when ratios, percentages or weights are given. I do hate it when people talk in cups though, I have no idea what an American cup is measurement wise.

I belong to a raw whole food group, so I can see a lot info info there, but there are lots of groups and information on raw whole foods for parrots on the internet. There is even some for specific parrot types. Maybe we will have a member who will be able to provide those here.

When I was younger in Canada it was the imperial system for cups, quarts and gallons and when I travelled to the states, Their units were smaller. so cups were smaller, quarts were smaller and gallons were smaller. Now that we use the metric system, I have to convert everything on line.

[Wolf]

People is any of this really needed? First of all the gluten sensitivity ( a human condition) was not brought up by Pajarita. Pajarita's link about gluten sensitivity was in response to the party bringing up the subject and was only used as support that this condition does not exist in birds as far as is known.
Leanna, I am so sorry that you have this condition but there was in no way any attack on you and I am sorry that you find the sharing of information that you don't agree with to be offensive.
Seagoatdeb you brought this whole gluten thing up and then are offended when someone disagrees with you? This is not right.

The only one that has even began to exhibit a reasonable and rationale approach to this is Marie83.
We are supposed to be adults here and yet we are acting like spoiled little brats. I am sorry that the PM function has been down, this was the first I knew of it but regardless you guys could not stop you spiteful bickering on the forum so that this could be addressed properly.
Guys, come on, you are better than this or you can be. Yes I know how it feels to be told that your pain, or condition is not real or that it is just a product of your own mind. I get this told to me every three months when I go to the doctors. Am I offended? No, I am not, why should I be? My doctor may or may not be right but this in no way serves to make my life any less painful.
We don't have to act this way and information is just information and there are at least two sides to every issue. If one side is going to be presented then the other side has just as much right to be presented whether it is popular or not. If you are going to bring up something that you may be offended by the opposing point of view then just don't bring it up. In this manner it is very easy to not need to be offended. Every time someone says a thing that we disagree with we can choose to be offended or not it is our choice ultimately on whether we choose to be offended or not.
Absolutely, none of this display was necessary or needed and for sure did not need to be played out here on the forum. There are better ways of dealing with these things. Please respect each other or failing that respect yourself enough to refrain from this type of pettiness, I personally find this to be demeaning and it has a diminishing effect on each of us and that is offensive. Please grow up.

I made the statement " Seagoatdeb you brought this whole gluten thing up and then are offended when someone disagrees with you? This is not right."

I apologise for this statement. Seagoatdeb, you can be offended as much as you want about anything that you desire to be offended about whenever you choose to be offended.

[liz]

I thought measuring cups were used all over the world, am I wrong? How do your recipes give their measurements, Marie?

They are probably metric. I used to watch the British "Naked Chef". He even weighed out some on a little scale.
My 2 cents:
I line up plastic cups and measure exact in each one to make sure they get the same daily before putting it into individual snack size zip bag. I line up my bags of grain and have little plastic measures probably for measuring coffee.
Some small grains get scant scoops. Some get big scoops. They like ferro best so it gets 2 scoops. In the morning while it is soaking I cut the fresh or frozen veg and fruit to be added that day. If I don't have anything green that is fresh I can always resort to frozen. They love peas.
I can set up a months worth in about an hour and don't have to think every morning. I just keep them in an old bird seed jar. I put labels on the lids of what it is and how to prepare it. The labels also have measure per bird. Rambo, Myrtle and Gimpy get heaping tablespoons full (Gimpy always seems to get at least one visitor at mealtime and must have enough to share. I scatter the rest on a large tray. When I go in the Cockatiel room Phoenix is either the first at the tray or he is just sitting where the tray belongs. They get side dishes through out the day of whatever I have that they can share.
This is the method I use for my meds since I take a handful in the morning and a different handful at night. I don't have to think of which to take because it is already set up.

[Pajarita]

This is what I found about cooking measurements (I found it very interesting, especially the part at the end that explains qualifiers of the measurement they use):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cooking_w ... d_measures

[seagoatdeb]

I thought measuring cups were used all over the world, am I wrong? How do your recipes give their measurements, Marie?

They are probably metric. I used to watch the British "Naked Chef". He even weighed out some on a little scale.
My 2 cents:
I line up plastic cups and measure exact in each one to make sure they get the same daily before putting it into individual snack size zip bag. I line up my bags of grain and have little plastic measures probably for measuring coffee.
Some small grains get scant scoops. Some get big scoops. They like ferro best so it gets 2 scoops. In the morning while it is soaking I cut the fresh or frozen veg and fruit to be added that day. If I don't have anything green that is fresh I can always resort to frozen. They love peas.
I can set up a months worth in about an hour and don't have to think every morning. I just keep them in an old bird seed jar. I put labels on the lids of what it is and how to prepare it. The labels also have measure per bird. Rambo, Myrtle and Gimpy get heaping tablespoons full (Gimpy always seems to get at least one visitor at mealtime and must have enough to share. I scatter the rest on a large tray. When I go in the Cockatiel room Phoenix is either the first at the tray or he is just sitting where the tray belongs. They get side dishes through out the day of whatever I have that they can share.
This is the method I use for my meds since I take a handful in the morning and a different handful at night. I don't have to think of which to take because it is already set up.

You have a very organized method, Thats great, its gotta make it easy to do. I have to say I had never heard of the Naked Chef so I googled it and alas he wasnt naked....lol