Cancer

[pukeko]

How common is cancer? An aggressive ovarian cancer just took my conure from me over a span of only six weeks, barely enough time to even try more than one treatment plan... the vet didn't even determine it was cancer and not a cyst until three weeks after she started showing respiratory symptoms! I feel that the vet was very competent and experienced, but also quite traditional in her approach, and relied heavily on xrays for diagnostics.

So I suppose I just want to know how common this suite of diseases is in parrots, and if you know of any treatments which have been known to work. I don't think I could have done much more for Suk because of how rapidly it progressed and because the vet told me this cancer spreads through contact and Suk did not display any symptoms aside from very slightly wider foot posture until the mass was big enough to effect her respiration, but... it would be good to know. This was shocking. She has been with me since I was seven, through every big life change since then, and handled it all with grace and indomitable kindness and sweetness. We should have had another 15 or 20 years together...

She leaves behind a newish companion, a seven year old GCC who was quite neglected and who, while very bonded to me and doing well with my family, is definitely feeling the lack of avian companionship. I do not particularly want another bird right now, and pyrrhuras over the age of 10 do not tend to be readily available aroubd here. It took me years to find him to be a companion for us, but he would undoubtedly prefer not to wait that long. I don't know what to do.

Thanks,
Pukeko

[pukeko]

Oh, and the vet talked about cancer being very common, which seemed bizarre considering I have very rarely read about birds getting it! She said that their higher metabolisms do them no favors and linked that with higher rates of cell replication, leading to more severe/rapid spreads, but does higher metabolism rates affect cell replication rates? It makes sense that birds get cancer (as most living things do, mole rats being one notable exception) but she said that it was the second most common cause of death at her clinic, and that seems ridiculously high! Perhaps she was exaggerating?

Please feel free to share your experiences with cancer here, too, any of you who have that experience. If it is very common, surely some of the members who have had birds for more than two decades must have some personal or second hand stories. Though it would be lovely if they didn't... I really wish I didn't, and that Suk didn't.

[Wolf]

I can't say that I have any birds that have cancer and really hope that I don't, but as a member of several other parrot forums I read enough about this that I must concur with your vet that it seems to be quite common in parrots, at least in captive parrots. I really don't know about any cancer spreading through contact, unless he is speaking of only within the birds on body, and even then, I am not sure that the statement is any more than speculation because as far as I am aware of we don't actually know how it spreads. We know so little about cancers in humans and even if we try to apply what we do know to our birds we are remarkably ignorant of the processes of cancers and since we know as little about cancer in humans, it should not be too surprising that we know even less about it in parrots which we have only just begun to do any scientific research on and about.
We do know some things about cancers, for instance we know that certain chemical substances increase the chances of developing cancers, this became most apparent to us through the rise of cancers in those exposed to pesticides, fungicides and other chemicals that were used to increase the productivity of our farms worldwide. Although there has really not been enough research into the effects of all of the additives that are added to our food in the processing stage, we do know that some of them also increase the likelihood of cancers in humans. We are also aware that at least in some of us that there may be a genetic predisposition to some forms of cancer. And for the big one, there is much evidence suggesting that stress plays a very large and important role not only in those who develop cancers, but also in those who recover from cancers of all types.
I know that I am speaking just off the top of my head about cancers in humans, but when we compare these factors with how we keep our birds it should really be not big surprise at the amount of cancers that we are finding in them. We add large amounts of dyes, preservatives, artificial vitamins and minerals of inferior quality and of little to no benefit to our parrots diet, we deprive them of exercise and normal social interactions and we keep them in high stress environments and all of these things are factors in developing cancers in humans. How much more so are they in our birds?
If we wish to see a reduction in cancers in not only ourselves, but in our birds then we need to take a close look at these factors in their lives and change their diets and their living conditions. I am speaking off the top of my head without looking up scientific references to back up my thoughts and although I am nota doctor or a vet, I think that the vas majority of what I have said is pretty much common knowledge and we just need to start applying it to our birds.
OK, it is time for me to get my tail off of my little soap box and let more knowledgeable people have their say.

[pukeko]

Thanks, Wolf. I look forward to hearing from other people too. Where have you read about other cancers? I searched this forum and didn't find any specific cases.

Re. the contact spreading, she meant internally, from organ to organ via contact with the ovary and possibly inwards.

Re. cancer risk factors... I'm sure that those are all factors to minimise, but we still understand little enough about cancer that there is no script for actually avoiding it entirely. Suk ate entirely organic, undyed foods for twelve of her sixteen years and was fully flighted. She did come to class occasionally and get scritches on my knee, and she did travel internationally once, but that was years ago and I cannot fathom that one instance being 'to blame' for an aggressive cancer three years or so later. Not that I think we can actually correctly deduce non-chemical or some few genetic causes yet, anyway... Gah.

[Wolf]

As stated in my previous reply I am a member of several other forums. Many of them are much larger than this one and it is on some of these larger forums that I have read of cancers.
Stress in our birds is probably to blame for most occurances of cancer as it does make changes in the birds body such as prolonged stress weakening the immune system and it does interfere with cell division to the extent that it shortens their life expectancy. There was a study done about this that was posted on the forum, I believe that Pajarita posted it and may still have a link to it that she could repost for you to read.
Our birds are all subjected to prolonged stress while in captivity simply due to the fact that even with the very best of care we are unable to provide for all of their mental, emotional and physical needs and this produces an almost constant state of low level stress. Unfortunately we do not yet know how to change this and have to try in every way possible to lower their levels of stress.
Since we can't even say what the causes of cancer is in humans, I really don't think that we are going to do any better in identifying the causes of cancer in parrots which we have only been doing studies on for approximately 25 years and they are every bit as complicated as we humans are. Even the avian medical texts have almost nothing on cancers in them, which should be taken as an indicator of the amount of research that has been done on cancer in birds captive or not.
I really wish that I could give you more to go on, but I really can't.
I am so sorry that you lost such a dear friend as you bird was and I grieve with you for this loss and wish there were more I could do.

[pukeko]

Thanks, Wolf. I think I am familiar with the paper Parjarita posted. The only other big forums I know of are AA and the grey forum - which other ones do you consider large?

It is so odd and terrible that she is gone. I look at my other bird, who needs me much more now, and it feels weird for it to just be us. I quite literally grew up with her. We should have had another twenty years together.

[Chantilly]

I dont really have anything much to say but I have briefly heard of cancer in birds but havnt often, and want you to know that I am very sorry for your loss.

[Pajarita]

Cancer is not as uncommon as people think in birds but it goes mostly undiagnosed and unreported because few people would pursue diagnostics tools that are expensive or do a necropsy. And, of course, the fact that birds hide symptoms until they are really, really sick doesn't help either because, by the time anybody notices anything, it's too late to do anything.

I had a bird that had to be put down from bone cancer.

[pukeko]

Thanks Chantilly, Parjarita. The under-reporting makes sense, sadly.

Chantilly, your bird looks quite a bit like my remaining guy, a mostly naked rehomed cinn. gcc. We are drawing together in this new relationship, sans Suk. I have pictures of her in frequently viewed places, and videos for when I want them, which help a lot. Nothing like that video of a particularly good ear rub and the resultant extraordinarily undignified "wark" to help. Thank you for your condolences.

Parjarita, I am sorry for your loss, even if it wasn't recent.

[liz]

Your surviving parrot is very confused. If he did not see her body he just doesn't know where she is. If he understands "bye bye" you can use it to tell him she is no longer in the house. He will mourn. The two of you should be mourning together. When you start to get over it is when he will.

I don't know how common cancer is but I believe it would be more common than you think. My Mom was the mover and shaker in the family and did not give in and go to the doctor until it had spread through her body and nothing could be done.
Animals hide their weakness. By the time we think something is wrong it is too late. There are probably many humans not as in tune with their birds as you and their bird died without getting treatment or even diagnosed.

The best you can do right now is comfort your little boy.