Blue Quaker. Open sore

[Liv3laughlov3608]

This was the first day I had available to take him. They cleaned the wound, agreed that it was self-mutilation, gave him a poncho, and some medications. We are going back today for nail and beak trim and to pick up the remaining meds that needed time to fill. Doctor said it would take about 3 weeks for it to help but it should heal fine. Said it maybe a cause from hormonal reasons. He has seen 5-6 other birds the past couple days with the same hole and it was hormonal per blood and additional research options. Right now I'm going to focus on closing the hole and getting him healed. Then I can go further with research for him.

Thank you to everyone for their assistance. I'll keep you guys posted. I'll post a picture a little later.

[Pajarita]

A beak trim? Does he really need it or is it something they suggested you do? Because, sometimes, avian vets recommend things that are not really necessary. A healthy bird never needs a beak trim - only birds with beak deformations or with a malfunctioning liver do so, if he really needs it and it's not due to malformation, please ask the vet to do a bile acid tests to see how the liver is doing.

As to his plucking, yes, most likely it is because he is overly hormonal. It's a common problem with quakers... Quakers are not supposed to be hormonal this time of the year, they start producing hormones when daylight hours reach 13 and have their babies at 14.5. We are now at a bit less than 9.5 hours in USA so you must be keeping him at a human light schedule instead of a solar one - and, if he really does have an overgrown beak, you must be feeding him too much protein (high protein also makes them hormonal). This would make him produce sexual hormones all year round, making him sexually frustrated and in pain and that's, most likely, why he is plucking and self mutilating. The vet will, most likely, Lupron or a similar product but be aware that it doesn't work for all birds, it never works long term and, what it does is make him produce even more hormones until the body, realizing there is something terribly wrong, shuts down production altogether. So the 'solution' is to actually screw up the endocrine system even more than it is.

[Liv3laughlov3608]

I do the beak and nail trim. I've been doing it since he was little. Not something they recommended during the visit. I asked.

As of the schedule, it probably is because they have all been on the human type schedule and not covered anymore with a blanket.

[Wolf]

I don't normally cover my birds at night although I am up early enough to uncover them in plenty of time for them to get the benefit of the predawn twilight. They also need to be exposed to the evening twilight period that we call dusk and then covered after it fades into full dark so that they can sleep. These two twilight periods are required by the bird to balance and reset their internal biological clock so the they do not get hormonal except during breeding season when they are supposed to, and they need these two period without any artificial light sources interfering with the light of these periods. The bird should probably only get about 10 to 12% protein in its diet, but can't say for sure as I can't find the protein requirements for most species of parrots.

[ParrotsForLife]

Pajarita I once asked about that in another forum about being in pain when they are sexually frustrated and they and myself think that is not true.If I can find the thread ill post it.I made the thread when I had Rio because you were saying about him being sexually frustrated which wasn't true either and what it really was I think is because I had other birds and it was obvious he only wanted me to himself.

[Liv3laughlov3608]

Three kinds of medications given:
1) soother plus topical cream
2) Baytril 136mg/rasp 6ml mixture
3) meloxidyl 1.5 mg/ml

Overall he is doing well. I had the poncho on him for like 14 hours and then I made him a fleece jacket until I get him a hoodie to wear.

[Pajarita]

Awww, he looks so cute in his little vest!

Good on the meds, he is getting a topical and an oral antibiotic (to prevent infection) and a pain killer and anti-inflammatory (always good when there is a wound).

[Pajarita]

Pajarita I once asked about that in another forum about being in pain when they are sexually frustrated and they and myself think that is not true.If I can find the thread ill post it.I made the thread when I had Rio because you were saying about him being sexually frustrated which wasn't true either and what it really was I think is because I had other birds and it was obvious he only wanted me to himself.

Brandon, you need to learn to do research on your own whenever you question or don't know about something somebody else tells you instead of asking questions in a forum that might be answered by people who know nothing. I am not scolding you, mind you. I know that you like to know as much as possible about your birds and what I am saying is that asking people who you have no way of telling whether they actually know something or not, is not the way to learn. Go to science sources and learn from them, not from pets owners.

I am going to try to make a long story short but I am also giving you links for the long version of it.

Birds have sexual organs that go dormant during the resting season (season where there is no breeding, usually the winter but, in the tropics, the wet one). When the gonads (sexual organs which, in birds, are always inside the body -not like mammals where males have them outside the body) are dormant, they are teeny tiny and even of a different color than when they are active - they don't produce or do anything, they are just there waiting. Then when the bird reaches the point of photorefractoriness (the amount of daylight hours that the bird's particular species uses to start producing sexual hormones - there are other triggers, too), the 'master' glands of the endocrine system start producing hormones which make the 'rounds and are also 'poured' into the bloodstream (for feedback to the master glands). This is what makes the teeny tiny gonads grow and start preparing reproduction. When you don't expose the bird to the different day lengths that happen in nature and keep it to a human schedule (long days and no exposure to dawn and dusk) as well as feed too much protein, the bird's body 'thinks' it's still breeding season and it keeps on producing sexual hormones way after it should have stopped. This makes the sexual organs continue to grown when, in the wild, they would have started shrinking again until they went completely dormant. This over large gonads are the cause of discomfort and even pain. I know of birds that had blood in their urine because of this and I know of birds that have self-mutilated right above the spot where the gonads would be (one of them a male quaker, as a matter of fact).

People who say "they don't think so" have not done any research about the endocrine and reproductive system of birds because if they had, they would not say that.

This is a link to a 'compressed' and relatively easy version: http://people.eku.edu/ritchisong/avianreproduction.html

This is a link to a long explanation of the whole process:
http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewc ... ductive%22

And another one about the same thing in an Avian Medicine:
http://avianmedicine.net/content/upload ... uctive.pdf

This one studies the relationship between pineal melatonin (the hormone that the body produces in the dark), photoperiodism and reproductive system.
https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... hilippinus

As you can see, it's the number of hours of light that makes the biggest difference (that's why birds are 'photoperiodic') and, in the wild, nature has everything under control by the seasonal changes both in day length as well as the change in diet but, in captivity, things get screwed up and the birds bodies cannot keep 'attuned' to the seasons. This screws up the endocrine system (which regulates more than just gonadal growth, mind you!) and makes the birds so uncomfortable that some of them bite chunks out of their own body in desperation.

[ParrotsForLife]

Oh all my birds go to bed when I go to bed and I never had any problems and I have Rocko over a year and Rio was not sexually frustrated thats one thing I definitely know now from reading your information.

[Wolf]

Well I don't know if Rio was hormonal or not, but we respond based soly on the information that you give us to go by and compare that to our knowledge and experience to provide the best answer that we can. But as for the pain portion of the issue, I don't mean this to be rude, or insensitive and I don't mean to be indelicate, but if you will just squeeze your own gonads you will very quickly learn if and how painful it is and can become. Birds are no different than any other animal in this regard.