Seed in Stool!

[ParrotMan82]

Hello,

First let me start off by saying that the bird has an appointment to see the vet (CAV) on Wednesday, February 12th. I talked on the phone with the vet assistant and she said the CAV didn't think it needed emergency attention.

The seed in the stool started on the 3rd and we've been panicking about a reoccurrence of ABV in our home. We had a cockatiel that had ABV and passed away in August, but it has been several months and no one had exhibited sickness within the normal time (14-30 days incubation). The cockatiel had been quarantined the second day he had shown symptoms and the CAV had said that the cockatiel strain seldom effects new world parrots. This conure had very little to no interaction with the ABV+ bird (fresh feces or saliva) either, which makes it seem fairly impossible for the ABV to return. Regardless, the conure will be tested for ABV as he has clinical symptoms associated with the disease.

His (not DNA sexed) normal weight is around 155g, nanday conure. On Wednesday night his weight shot UP to 168g, and then two hours later it was 175g. Since then he was passing seed and his weight has declined to about 168g again. This is about 4 or 5 standard deviations away from his normal weight. He has also not been pooping in his cage and will wait until he is let out to do so, it looks something like a morning poop, but we've been letting him out multiple times a day so he doesn't have a prolapse.

From what I've read, ABV has a typical symptom of weight loss as food can not be digested by the bird. His appetite has increased it seems, he's been "frisky" a lot lately, and has otherwise behaved normally (flying, playing, singing). The seed in the stool, however, has me on the brink of an emotional collapse.

Is there a disease that is more common with increased weight and seed in the stool?

[Wolf]

It sounds to me like you are dealing with PDD. Bornavirus is a neurological disease although it is found in a large number of birds with PDD, but not in all f them. There is research stating that avian bornavirus may be a cause of PDD in some parrots but due to the fact that it is not found in all cases of PDD they suspect that there is either some undetected variety of avian bornavirus involved in those cases or there is some other pathogen involved that they don't yet know about. As far as I am aware of ABV?PDD can exist for long periods of time in a bird with little effect and them jump up full blown and there is no effective treatment as far as I know for either of these diseases. That pretty well exhausts what I think I know about these diseases.

[Michael]

If it is a single isolated incident I wouldn't put too much weight on it but if it is happening repeatedly, definitely need to check with vet. Probably PDD but maybe a different infection of gi.

[Pajarita]

Oh, geez! I am afraid that going by the symptoms and the fact that you had PDD in your house a few months ago, it all points in that direction.

Please make sure this bird is not only isolated but that you are also following very strict quarantine protocols because, as it is, you might already have the beginnings of an epidemic in your hands...

So sorry for the whole terrible situation! I can't even begin to imagine what you must be going through right now!

[ParrotMan82]

I'm running a bit of an experiment right now. Yesterday he didn't receive any seed treats. Today he still has seed in the stool. I'm waiting for all the seed to pass and then give him another treat and time how long it will take to pass it all out.

Right now his weight is still 3.3 deviations above average. So there is a definite abnormality (99.7% certainty) as I have been tracking all their weights since August when the first bird passed away. I've been taking notes on the progression of whatever it is so I have something to present to the CAV.

From what I've been told and what I've read, isolation from the rest of the flock only means that there is no interaction between the birds. ABV passes from fecal, saliva, and gestational fluids. As it is an RNA virus the survival of the virus outside a host is extraordinarily low.

Upwards to 60% of captive birds show antibodies for ABV and only about 5% of those birds show clinical signs. Which is why I think the CAV thought it was probably not ABV since to have two birds contract the virus and show severe clinical signs is a 9/1000 chance at most.

I will keep you updated. My CAV appointment is on Wednesday, the results for the ABV test might not come back for two weeks.

[ParrotMan82]

In the mean time I'm going to put him on an easily digestible diet. Bananas, apples, rice, and whole grain toast.

[Wolf]

I thought these might be helpful

http://www.avianbiotech.com/Diseases/Bornavirus.htm

http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/18/2/11-1525_article

http://jvi.asm.org/content/84/13/6269.full

[Pajarita]

I once heard of a lady who brought PDD to her own birds just from touching a sick bird so, if I were you, I would be extra careful.

I would also add some nut butter (almond?) to the diet you mentioned to increase protein a bit as well as organic aloe vera juice to the water (internal anti-inflammatory) and slippery elm to the soft food (its high mucillage content is excellent for soothing irrititation or lesions in internal organs like the stomach and intestines) - boswellia also comes to mind...

[ParrotMan82]

I found another article that discusses crop stasis and some of the causes of undigested seed. I recall that he had been chewing on a crocheted blanket right before he started having issues. I'm hoping that it isn't obstruction, I'd feel terrible.

• Obstruction – ingested foreign objects or neoplasia (tumors)

• Viral diseases –especially Avian Bornavirus (Proventricular Dilatation Disease) and, in young birds, Polyomavirus

• Bacterial infection - occurring anywhere in the intestinal tract

• Fungal infection - in the crop or proventriculus

• Metabolic diseases – liver disease, pancreatitis

• Toxins – especially heavy metals such as lead or zinc

He'll be going in on Wednesday so I'll report back. Just by observations there seems to be slow motility of the digestive tract. The CAV I spoke to said it was likely not ABV, but it can't be ruled out yet. They will probably start with an X-ray and then depending on the results either draw blood for a ABV test or a CBC panel. Unless of course it shows an obstruction...

[Wolf]

All that I can do is hope that it is not PDD as there is actually no treatment for it and you would not want to expose any other bird to it either. One of the links that I provided did mention that there was a soft food or liquid type of diet that may help him to live a longer life if it does turn out to be PDD/AVD, but as hard as it sounds even an obstruction requiring surgery would be preferable to PDD, although I will also hope that it is not that either.

I have a Grey parrot that feels that she absolutely must shred cloth every chance that she gets. I try to keep her from doing it but have not been successful in preventing it in all cases. It worries me that she might ingest some of it, but I have watched her and have never seen her swallow any of it just shreds it and spits it out, but still I try to not allow her to do this as you never know if they will decide to swallow some of the material. I do provide other shredding alternatives for her and have finally made progress in getting her to use the safer alternatives but cloth is still her preference, to my dismay.

Also due to the fact that there was an occurrence of PDD in your birds, I believe that I would have this bird tested for it just to be safer.