Baby Green Wing macaw refusing formula at 11 weeks old

[chad84]

I don't know why my GW isn't gaining weight. I found a website with a GW that had same weight as Robert at his same age (18 weeks).

http://www.jaredworkman.com/ariel2.htm

Check it out. Robert is 18 weeks and 860 g.

The other issue is the regurgitation. I want it to stop. Some how as soon as I feed him, he tries to regurgitate. But if I stop him, that's it. He doesn't do it again until next feeding. Help me!

The last issue of diarrhea was resolved by simply changing his formula as advised by a vet.

He cries out when his crop is empty to be fed and he begs by bobbing his head slowly up and down and make a 'meep meep' sound. Then when I get the syringe, he eats a little without a feeding response and then refuses. At that point I squeeze the rest at the back of his throat. He eats a total of 300 ml of food from 6am to 6pm then he sleeps from 6pm to 6am.

[Pajarita]

I might be missing something but if Robert is the same age and weight as the one on the site, why do you keep on saying that he is not gaining enough weight?

As to the regurgitation, it is common for juveniles to regurgitate. I don't know if his is worse than any other but, again, he has been taking all kinds of really strong medications for a looong time now so it might be a matter of letting him be for a while and feeding him more solid food and not so much formula. You have been taking him to several different vets and that implies a trip outside your house as well as getting touched by different strangers (HIGH stress), he has been given injections (VERY traumatic to a bird -I don't allow a single one to mine) as well as REALLY strong medicines (antibiotics, antifungals, anti-inflammatories) that have bad side effects for them (destruction of intestinal flora, liver, kidneys, crop, etc) and all these things are highly stressful to them both mentally AND physically. Personally, even though most people think of birds as fragile, I find them extraordinarily hardy and resilient. But I also think that too many medicines end up doing more harm than good... I medicate when necessary but I firmly believe that there is nothing better than allowing nature and good food to do its work - and that takes a bit of time.

[chad84]

I am saying he needs to gain weight based on the size charts I have seen. The minimum is around 1250g for a GW. The link I cited, I found it recently when wondering why my bird lost all that weight and my only comfort is another bird with his weight. I just thought he should be larger. Like at least the minimum weight.

Okay no more medication for a while. Will give him a break and just feed pure formula and vegetables and probiotics. I will also stop all the visits to different vets as well. I will stop rushing him to get better and try to feed him healthy raw vegetables.

What is the reason for the regurgitation? Is it because he is weaning? He has already fledged.

[Wolf]

I do not think that Pajarita meant that you need to stop the vet visits, if he has need of them, because it is obvious that Robert was sick and needed the help. The vet visits are probably not needed for the regurgitation as long as it is not vomiting as there is a difference.

We have been trying to get you to increase Robert's intake of adult foods and we know that this has been hampered by the fact that he has been sick and that is the reason for his still relying on formula instead of being able to transition him to an adult diet more fully. You have done well in taking care of Robert, but if the only symptom that he is having now is regurgitation, it may be time to stop the medications and all and get him on track with his diet and see what happens.

Regurgitation can sometimes become a habit, or sort of like an eating disorder, like bulimia and anexoria. The last vet suggested that you should not worry over much about the regurgitation and seemed to think that once Robert finished the meds that he gave you that the regurgitation would gradually clear up on its own, which suggests that it could be a part of the side effects of all of the drugs that he was on.

[Pajarita]

Wolf is correct, if he needs to see a vet, of course you should take him. But you go from one vet and his medicines to another vet and still another treatment with medicines. They need a stress-free environment and good food to finish the work the medicines start. In my personal opinion, you would do much better if you start providing good soft food for him to eat on his own and stop feeding him so much formula. Formula is dead food. It has been processed and devoided of phytonutrients (antioxidants, enzymes, etc) and it's through raw produce that he will get the necessary bacteria and enzymes to replenish his digestive tract bacteria. I think you are relying too much on medicines instead of providing him with the necessary raw material for his body to do what it's supposed to do and waiting long enough for this to happen.

Try giving him a good gloop or some nice whole grain (cooked) couscous mixed with finely chopped and pureed veggies about one hour after the sky gets light -you can still feed him some formula late morning (and he should be eating it out of a bowl or, at the very least, a spoon by now). Then, about two or three hours after he ate his formula, give him another kind of soft food (soaked soft seeds, sprouts, polenta with pureed veggies, etc). Animals need to follow the 'schedule' they would in the wild to thrive...

[chad84]

I didn't say I will stop the vet visits. I said I would stop taking him to all the DIFFERENT VETS. I agree he needs to start eating food. Tell me how to make gloop. Or give me a great gloop recipe. I need to know exactly what to offer him please. Bear in mind alot of stuff isn't available in Trinidad and Tobago.

The regurgitation only happens if I leave him after I feed him. If I stick around and play with him, he will not regurgitate.

Another issue is, he only eats from his dishes when he is in his cage. And being a free range bird, he doesn't like his cage so much. Once we are home he just roams the house and shows no interest in being in his cage. How do I feed him when he isn't in the cage?

[Pajarita]

Oh, I would not worry too much about him not been in his cage -except that he will start chewing your furniture, walls, window frames, etc into toothpicks If you keep him at a schedule, he will know when it's time to eat. All birds eat two main meals, one when they first wake up and another one when they see the sun going down so as long as you feed him fresh food at these two times, leave stuff for him to munch on during the day and provide him with a third one at noon (and this is only because he is still very young and recuperating from his illness), he will be fine. There are many gloop recipes right here on this section and, although we list all kinds of different grains we use, you can pretty much use whatever you find available in T&B - thankfully, nowadays, we have a global market and anybody can get pretty much anything everywhere (there is a Whole Foods Market in Port of Spain, see here: https://www.facebook.com/Whole-Foods-Ma ... 963331642/). See what kind of whole grains you can get and get back to us, we will help you decide what to use and how to cook it. I use ancient grains now instead of wheat but I used it for many, many years and the birds suffered no harm.

[Wolf]

Sometimes with just the written word, people misunderstand what is being said, partly because there is no way to capture the tonal qualities that we often depend on in our everyday communications. So sometimes one of us will try to help clarify what was said, it does help prevent some misunderstandings, much of the time. But like the rest of the written replies, sometimes it helps and sometimes it doesn't help very much. I can assure you that no insult is intended.

[chad84]

Here are my current concerns.

1) Robert has NO appetite. He gets hungry, begs for food by honking and doing wing flip. But once the syringe or spoon is at his beak he tries to run away or he just squeezes his beak shut. I don't know how to get him to eat his formula. Formula is fed at 108 - 110f. I literally have to squeeze the formula down the back of his throat. All the while he is kicking and fighting and complaining. I hate forcing it down. Don't know why he isn't interested in eating anything. Not formula, not veggies, not fruits, just nothing. He plays with his veggies breaking them up into tiny pieces but I haven't noticed any being eaten.

2) He regurgitates during and after feeding formula. He Sometimes up to 3 hours after feeding him formula he will regurgitate. He starts gagging and then up comes the formula. If I watch him after I feed him and play with him he doesn't regurgitate for maybe 2hrs after feeding. But if I put him on his perch or in his cage, he will bring up like 5 - 15 ml just like that.

3) He has lost a good bit of weight. He went down to 860 g from 1050 g but is now at 885 g and SLOWLY climbing.

4) He used to sneeze alot and dig his nose with his claw all the time. But he had a mild antibiotic for 4 days and he sneezes like 3 times a day but doesn't dig his nose anymore.

[Wolf]

I wonder if the sneezing might have something to do with the air quality, things like dust or even mold spores in the air. Sometimes they sneeze because of the air being too dry for them. Does the sneezing decrease when you take him outside?

I really have a hard time thinking that humidity would be much of an issue, but that could still be the case depending on how climate controlled his living space is. Air purifiers could be an issue as many of them produce too much ozone which is bad for the birds. Humidifiers, if you use one have to be thoroughly cleaned before each use or they tend to grow molds and disperse them into the air.

All of this regurgitation and the lack of a feeding response worries me, especially as long as it has been going on with no real answers as to why this is so. I do a lot of reading and trying to find answers, but I am not a vet and my experience with birds is limited to around 4 years or a little more, I keep looking but can't find anything so far.

I don't know but, the amount of syringe feeding might be playing a role in his lack of feeding reflex. I know that gavage feeding ( tube feeding) has a tendency to interfere with the normal feeding reflex because of the food being delivered directly to the crop, So I am wondering if during the fight to feed Robert if the food might be getting placed too far down his throat and by passing the feeding response.

I feel so helpless with this and am again reduced to mainly guessing with many more questions than answers.