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Baby Green Wing macaw refusing formula at 11 weeks old

Talk about bird illnesses and other bird health related issues. Seeds, pellets, fruits, vegetables and more. Discuss what to feed your birds and in what quantity. Share your recipe ideas.

Re: Baby Green Wing macaw refusing formula at 11 weeks old

Postby Pajarita » Tue May 03, 2016 10:46 am

Chad, I think you are doing a magnificent job with Super Robert! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: Triple kudos to you for asking, reading, absorbing and implementing advice!

Just follow Wolf's suggestions on the diet and I think it will be fairly easy for you to get him to eat a good diet. Macaws remain with their parents until they start breeding on their own (at around 4 years of age) and their parents actually supplement their own food intake by feeding them in their beaks until they are 9 months old so this 'learning from daddy and mommy what to eat' is hard-wired into their brains and, with macaws, it lasts a good long time - which makes it easier on us.
Pajarita
Norwegian Blue
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
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Flight: Yes

Re: Baby Green Wing macaw refusing formula at 11 weeks old

Postby chad84 » Tue May 03, 2016 2:18 pm

Wolf wrote:OK, here is what the parent birds do to teach their young to eat the right foods as well as what it looks like so that they can find it on their own.

Shortly after fledging the parent parrots take the young birds out to the feeding grounds and set them on a rech which is usually a tree branch and then the parents go and get a piece of food such as a fruit and they bring it back to where their babies are and they make a big deal of showing this food to the young birds and then the parent eats the food without offering to share it. The young birds do not like this so when the parent comes back with the next piece of food and show it to them they=e young birdsask for some of it, but the parent again eats it without sharing any of it. The next parent arrives with some more of this food and again shows it to the young birds who are now begging and demanding their share of the food. The parent bird still refuses to share it and eats it all in front of the young birds. The next time the parent returns with a piece of the food and shows it to the young birds they are demanding some and this time they start running in and trying to take the food from the parent bird. The parent bird actually makes it quite easy for the young bird to steal a piece of the food. That is how the parent parrots teach their young to eat the right foods, as well as what it looks like and how to find it.

Taking from this I begin about half an hour after my birds get up in the morning and I arrive with no more than three different fresh raw foods that I want my bird to learn to eat, all cut into the sizes that are going to allow me to give them small pieces of it as well as some that is large enough for them to hold while eating. I use the larger pieces to do what the parent birds do. I am talking to my birds throughout this process and I show them a piece of one of these foods and then I eat it slowly in front of my birds making happy noises and telling them how good the food is. My birds will usually start asking for a piece of it right away, but I do not share it, I eat the whole piece and then I pick up another piece of the same food and repeat this performance and by the time I finish the second piece my birds are usually begging and starting to demand a piece of the food, but again I eat the whole piece and repeat this again and if they are demanding the food and starting to try to find a way to get at the food, I will give them a small piece of that food. I do this with each of the foods that I have brought with me. Some times my bird will eat the food and sometimes they just drop or throw it away, but that doesn't matter, when I have gone through all of the foods in this manner I place all of the remaining pieces in their cage with them so that they can pick at it as they choose and then in about half an hour I add their regular breakfast, leaving all of the new produce in a food dish for them until dinner time.

I have tried several way of getting my birds to try a new food, but if it is a lone bird this one has worked the best for me. I hope that it will help you and Robert as well.

Will try this.
chad84
Cockatiel
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
Posts: 80
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Re: Baby Green Wing macaw refusing formula at 11 weeks old

Postby chad84 » Tue May 03, 2016 2:19 pm

Hi all. Essay time!

So the vet I saw today was the absolute best so far. She listened well, gave great advise and commended me on my great care for Robert.

She was extremely kind to Robert and I. She took her time and inspected Robert from head to toe. He loved her. He flew to her and jumped on top her head and preened her hair. She was amazed at how active he is and wondered why I requested to see her. And guess what? She is an Avian Veterinarian. She teaches at the School of Veterinary Medicine (government) with the Senior Avian vet. I didn't get to see the one I was previously scheduled to meet. And boy am I glad.

I explained all that was wrong with Robert. Throwing up, no appetite, refusing food, has to be force fed, diarrhea and slightly yellow urine. She did a full examination on him. After which she told me he doesn't need a blood test just yet. And she doesn't want to do an x ray yet either. I was SO DISAPPOINTED. She saw this and explained to me fully why she thinks I should not waste time and money.

I didn't tell her what the 4 other non-avian vets told me, as I wanted her to form her own opinions. And I also didn't tell her about his medical past or his current diet. I needed to get her professional advice without prior knowledge. The Avian Vet told me that there are no easily discernible signs of illness and his energy levels are off the chart. She said she noticed 10% of his papillae on the choana are very short but the rest are pointy as they should be. She noted that he is recovering from a vitamin A deficiency. She also told me that he has a calcium deficiency and showed me his beak, nails and skin. She then told me he has a fat deficiency too. She also pointed out some white specs on his choana which she said he is getting a mild case of candida due to a probable previous antibiotic treatment (she was spot on) or low immune system (spot on again). The vet said that he had good breast muscle but could get some more. She said that his weight (930g) is not too bad as he had been sick but she thinks the fledgling depleted his calories and had him in a deficit. She said the Vit A deficiency and medication usually causes the refusing of food. She said I am lucky I can still get him to open his beak and accept the food all the way to the back of the throat and he swallows it even though he isn't in the mood. She noted that the diarrhea is caused by the candida and formula being too thin. She said the urine actually looked ok but if it get darker yellow or brighter yellow, then come see her. She said almost clear, yellowish tint is normal.
By the way, he is no longer sneezing.

Solutions!
She told me to get him on a complete formula like RoudyBush, Kaytee or Zupreem (already there... lol). She said to add a carrot or sweet potato puree to the formula (been there done that!), add 1 drop of multivitamin (been there too), a sprinkle of avian probiotics (started that last night), a teaspoon of red palm oil (but she prefers coconut oil) [didn't do this], a tablespoon of yogurt (neither this), and a whole lot of love (been overdosing on this one). Oh and to give him a few drops Apple Cider Vinegar in 30 ml of water halfway between meals to reduce fungal growths.
She said this will cover Vit A deficiency, fat deficiency (and allow the solubility and absorption of Vit A), calcium deficiency, candida and give him a weight gain boost.
She gave him a Vitamin A booster injection and an Amoxycillin injection which he didn't like but got over it in like 15 secs and started back playing with her.
She also clipped his nails! No more impaling...

She said give him 1 week off all meds and use the healthy all natural foods she suggested and come see her in 1 week to discuss if he is still vomiting and has diarrhea.
chad84
Cockatiel
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
Posts: 80
Number of Birds Owned: 0
Flight: Yes

Re: Baby Green Wing macaw refusing formula at 11 weeks old

Postby chad84 » Tue May 03, 2016 8:22 pm

Tonight Robert ate his first cocktail that the vet asked me to give him.
90 ml Formula
1 drop Multivitamin
1 tsp Coconut oil
1 tbsp Yogurt
1 tbsp Carrot puree
1 dash of Probiotic powder

She said between meals I should give him apple cider vinegar in about 5 ml to 30 ml of water.
Now what I want to know is, should I just mix the ACV into his formula? Or would it kill the beneficial bacteria I added?
Why I ask is because I am unsure when exactly I should give him. That will be 3 extra times I have to put a syringe in his mouth besides the 4 feeding times.

Robert ate up the 1st 60 ml and gave trouble when I had to refill the syringe. He didn't throw up tonight! not even a little bit. None at all. He seems so content. He is standing on my arm while I type this message. My my my he is heavy. But he won't let me type properly. But his intrusion is a welcome one. He is fighting with my fingers as I type. Love my Super Robert so much. Wife loves him equally.

Enter the beak grind! Very very loud. But I feel good knowing he is content.
chad84
Cockatiel
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
Posts: 80
Number of Birds Owned: 0
Flight: Yes

Re: Baby Green Wing macaw refusing formula at 11 weeks old

Postby Wolf » Wed May 04, 2016 5:52 am

I believe that I had suggested the apple cider vinegar in an earlier reply and suggested also that you double check with the vet to be sure that it would be alright. The Apple cider vinegar is wonderful stuff, but you want to get the unpasteurized ACV not the regular stull as the un pasteurized type has more benefits for the bird. I would add it to his drinking water and not syringe feed it. It might take him a couple of days to get accustomed to the change in the taste of the water but he will drink it and it will not kill off the beneficial bacteria in his gut. It will also aid his digestion.
Wolf
Macaw
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
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Re: Baby Green Wing macaw refusing formula at 11 weeks old

Postby chad84 » Wed May 04, 2016 6:44 am

He is not drinking from his water dish right now as all he has is formula all day long. But I do provide fresh water twice a day just in case he changes his mind. So the only option is to feed him it by syringe.

I am using braggs apple cider vinegar. Raw and unfiltered and organic.
chad84
Cockatiel
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
Posts: 80
Number of Birds Owned: 0
Flight: Yes

Re: Baby Green Wing macaw refusing formula at 11 weeks old

Postby Wolf » Wed May 04, 2016 8:22 am

I live in the same room as my birds and even with seven birds I rarely see them drinking. Most Parrots drink twice a day once in the morning and once in the evening and depend on their food to supply the remainder of their water requirements.
Wolf
Macaw
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
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Location: Lansing, NC
Number of Birds Owned: 6
Types of Birds Owned: Senegal
African Grey (CAG)
Yellow Naped Amazon
2Celestial Parrotlet
Budgie
Flight: Yes

Re: Baby Green Wing macaw refusing formula at 11 weeks old

Postby Pajarita » Wed May 04, 2016 12:52 pm

Bragg's is perfect and what we normally recommend (mostly because it was the very first brand to produce the organic, unpasteurized, unfiltered 'with the mother' ACV). You can add it to his formula or to his soft food. Parrots love sour so don't worry about the flavor, he won't mind at all.

The new avian vet seems to be a great find. :thumbsup: I don't allow avian vets to give antibiotic or vit A injections to my birds but most of them would want to. I just don't like injections in birds because it's been found to damage too much of the muscle tissue so unless it's imperative for their survival (and, so far, it hasn't happened), my birds don't get them.
Pajarita
Norwegian Blue
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 18604
Location: NW Pa
Number of Birds Owned: 30
Types of Birds Owned: RoseBreasted too, CAG, DoubleYellowHead Amazon, BlueFront Amazon, YellowNape Amazon, Senegal, African Redbelly, Quaker, Sun Conure, Nanday, BlackCap Caique, WhiteBelly Caique, PeachFace lovebird, budgies,
Flight: Yes

Re: Baby Green Wing macaw refusing formula at 11 weeks old

Postby chad84 » Wed May 04, 2016 8:03 pm

Pajarita wrote:Bragg's is perfect and what we normally recommend (mostly because it was the very first brand to produce the organic, unpasteurized, unfiltered 'with the mother' ACV). You can add it to his formula or to his soft food. Parrots love sour so don't worry about the flavor, he won't mind at all.

The new avian vet seems to be a great find. :thumbsup: I don't allow avian vets to give antibiotic or vit A injections to my birds but most of them would want to. I just don't like injections in birds because it's been found to damage too much of the muscle tissue so unless it's imperative for their survival (and, so far, it hasn't happened), my birds don't get them.


Mine won't get injections again too! Thanks!
chad84
Cockatiel
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
Posts: 80
Number of Birds Owned: 0
Flight: Yes

Re: Baby Green Wing macaw refusing formula at 11 weeks old

Postby chad84 » Thu May 05, 2016 6:36 am

Good morning.

I have some bittersweet news about Robert. He is currently 890g on empty stomach today. Yesterday he was throwing up everything I fed him. He played with his pellets and with his chop. Not sure if he ate any. He has been a little grumpy and sticking up under me all day yesterday and all of this morning. I am scared that he is throwing up all the time for the last 3 feedings. His symptoms for candida are white stuff in the mouth, vomiting, diarrhea and refusing to eat. He literally runs from the syringe. The new avian vet has exams and will not be available till next week. I have been giving him Apple Cider Vinegar in his food but it has no effect since he is not digesting properly and has diarrhea.

I am not vet but decided to save my baby's life last night, I started a course of antifungal since the ACV is being thrown up. Gave him 35 mg fluconazole in 20 ml of pure raw apple puree. He ate it down quickly. Last night's dosing (day 1) was a success. Then I put him to bed.

This morning I gave him 60 ml of a mix of formula, yogurt, carrot puree, multivitamin, coconut oil, ACV and probiotics. After having 30 ml he threw up all of it. Gave him the remaining 30 ml and he did the same thing. Now his crop was empty again.

I took a piece of paper and wrote down all I gave him and decided to start eliminating all that was not necessary to be in his crop/stomach right now. So I mixed 60 ml of greek yogurt, multivitamin, probiotics and apple cider vinegar. Fed it to him and he ate it. He did the throw up reflex but only 2 drops came out his beak. 5 mins later he tried again and 1 drop came up. He is now sitting on my lap grinding his beak. I sit here typing this and kissing him gently on the back of his neck reassuring him all will be ok.

I feel stressed but not too bad as day 1 of fluconazole is down and he ate the yogurt. I will feed him yogurt every 3 hours for the next 48 hrs until i know 2 days of antifungal is in him and 2 days of ACV vinegar is in him, then I will try formula again.

He is asleep now making baby noises.
I have an urgent client to go see now and i don't know what to do.
chad84
Cockatiel
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
Posts: 80
Number of Birds Owned: 0
Flight: Yes

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