Baby Green Wing macaw refusing formula at 11 weeks old

[chad84]

Goodnight all.

Still could not see my vet as she is busy. So I found yet another vet to go to, not an avian vet though. He was kind to Robert and me. he checked Robert from head to tail. He commented on Robert's prime condition and great health!

I told him about my every concern. 900g weight with now weight gain, diarrhea ( mostly gone now), regurgitation, no feeding response and sunburn. He said sunburn will be gone in a few days and no feeding response is normal sometimes when the bird is tired of eat the same boring formula or is ill. He looked at Robert's poop and said it's actually very good. The yellow tinted urine is also gone. He said the yellow was due to the colour of a food additive that leeched from the faeces to the urine and now diarrhea is gone the yellow is gone too. Now the regurgitation, he tested Robert's faeces and did a throat swab and many other tests. he said Robert has candida positive in all tests and a single strain of bacteria due to antibiotics killing out the all bacteria and probiotics adding back only 1 type.

So his advice for regurgitation was, use Diflucan for 7 - 14 days at 20 mg a day for 7 days or every other day for 14 days. He also said use apple cider vinegar in water on empty stomach between meals. He said to increase Robert's complete darkness resting time and change Robert's formula from Kaytee exact baby macaw formula to Harrisson's Juvenile hand feed formula & add various fruits and vegetables to it to change the taste of the formula regularly.

To recap.
-longer dark hours
-ACV
-new formula
-diflucan

This should solve the regurgitation and weight gain issues.

Which formula is better, Harrisson's or Roudybush for my Green wing macaw?

[Pajarita]

I really could not tell you which one is better... I don't use anything that has soybean flour in it unless it's a super-duper emergency. Did you ask him what the longer nights would accomplish in terms of treatment for a fungal infection? I am not arguing with the doctor, mind you, I am asking out of curiosity because I've never heard or read anything about treating fungals with that.

[chad84]

My birdie is now 17 weeks old. Robert is active as ever, flying all over the house and perching on everything you can imagine. And that beak! Oh wow! Such destruction and strength.
We love Robert so much. He has become a little more demanding and quarrels when we stop rubbing his head. We have started putting him to bed earlier now too.
He seems so content. Grinds that beak morning, noon and night. He mumbles all day as well. At 32 years old, I couldn't ask for a better pet... ahem... buddy.

He has been on Diflucan for 2 days and will be getting his day 3 dose later this evening. He is having 120 ml of formula 3x a day now instead of 4. He gets apple cider vinegar in 20 ml of water 3 times a day 30 mins before formula. I give him Diflucan mixed with 20 ml of apple puree, once per day, 30 mins after apple cider vinegar and then I wait 30 mins before I give him his final evening formula.

I give him pure formula and probiotics for now with nothing else to minimise regurgitation.

We came home today and I was so tired from all the running around to get veggies and stuff for Robert, I said let me lay down for 5 mins and fell asleep. My wife came looking for Robert and I and couldn't find us. When she check the bedroom she saw Robert sitting on my chest as if he was waiting for me to awaken.



Purchased some new goodies for Robert. Bought the training perches from Parrot Wizard (Michael Sazhin). Also tested the flight harness. Allowed Robert to play with it and he let me put it on him with ease. Also bought a book about parrots.

[chad84]

I really could not tell you which one is better... I don't use anything that has soybean flour in it unless it's a super-duper emergency. Did you ask him what the longer nights would accomplish in terms of treatment for a fungal infection? I am not arguing with the doctor, mind you, I am asking out of curiosity because I've never heard or read anything about treating fungals with that.

The longer nights aid the regurgitation not the candida. Both not getting enough sleep and candida causes regurgitation.

[Wolf]

I did not know that, thank you.

[chad84]

Good morning.

Robert only eats (plays with!) his veggies, fruits and pellets when he is in his cage during the day while we work.
How do I get him to eat them when he is out of his cage and on his perches or roaming the house?

[Wolf]

Well things are different for Robert at this point in time because of his still having at the very least , a yeast infection that just keeps hanging on, even though I think that it should have died out long ago. The ACV should have killed it off by now, at least I think it should have. It makes me wonder if the reason for it continuing to hang on might be that he keeps getting reinfected by it and if this is what is happening what is the source.

I wonder if the handfeeding formula might be the problem? I would read the label and try to find one that lists all sugars and yeast as close to the bottom of the ingredient list as possible. Even though soy is a poor quality protein it is still protein and as long as Robert has an easily obtainable supply of protein he is going to keep eating that to the exclusion of other foods.

[chad84]

The vet said it was gone but due to the round of clavamox 3 weeks ago, the yeast returned. He said in future with antibiotics he will give antifungal same time.
He also said ACV in formula is not very effective. He said it needs to be on empty stomach mixed with water and fed 30 mins before formula is fed to be effective.
The vet said he wondered about the Kaytee and asked me to switch to Harrison's formula.

http://store.harrisonsbirdfoods.com/JUV ... tinfo/JUV/

He is playing with his pellets and fresh food. He usually chews them both and crushes them to smaller pieces. He does this till both the fresh food bowl and the pellet bowl are empty. I just want to get him to touch his food while he is out of the cage.

He is so full of energy and despite all that has happened to him, he was always active and lively and never looked sick a single day since I got him.
Right now he doesn't wanna eat his formula. He may eat 50 or 60 ml and doesn't want anymore. We force him to eat the next 60 ml sometimes depending on his weight which is 900g right now.
He prefers to play with his toys and fly all over the house all day long than eat.
We may start just feeding him when he begs. He begs x2 a day now.

[Wolf]

The fact that he is playing with the other foods is a good sign, but he still needs your help to actually begin to eat it and I explained the best way of doing that to you already. The thing about it is that you can not say I have been trying to get him to eat a carrot for a week or even two weeks so it is not working. You need to approach it from the stand point that it may take a year to get him to eat the carrot. You need to try them raw and cut into strips that he can hold, you need to try them shredded or partly cooked, cut into small pieces or whatever way that you can think of and it is the same with every other fruit and vegetable. I have birds that after three years of trying are finally starting to eat fruit like apples and some of them will et it if I put it in their food bowl with the gloop and a couple that will not touch them unless they are raw and I am eating the apple in front of them. For many of us this is not what you would call a battle but it is an exercise in creativity and just something that we do with them every morning just like changing the water or giving them breakfast. There is no time limits involved it is simply taking good care of them.

I recently got two skewers to put fruits and vegetables on for them in their cages, I still need to make some changes in order to use them, but it will make the fresh foods more like a toy for them and I hope increase their interest in these foods.

[Pajarita]

Wolf is right. Some parrots (not all but a goodly number of them) tend to be quite picky as to how a specific food is prepared. I have a CAG that would only eat raw carrots if they are coarsely shredded and that's it, not slice, not julienne, not even finely grated, only coarsely grated - but she will eat them cooked and diced, also (not in slices, mind you). And my redbelly would not eat a single piece of produce in her cage, it has to be given to her in her hand or beak outside her cage.

Now, what you call 'playing' with his food (the breaking it up in little pieces, etc) is the way they eat. It might seem that everything ends up on the floor but they do consume a bit. This behavior (the shredding, throwing food on the floor, etc) is normal. All parrots do it.

Macaws are late risers and usually do not go out foraging until the sun is out and, as timing is as important as presentation when it comes to food, the best thing you can do is use their natural daily biorhythms to help you. Wait 1.5 hours after dawn and give him his food while you stand or sit in front of him and eat the same thing you are offering him. To parrots, eating is a social event and they all do it together so, when you eat breakfast (their breakfast and not yours) with them, you are not only creating a bond but also teaching him what to eat.

I would have to disagree with the vet, having antibiotics for a bacterial infection does NOT cause them to get a fungal one. If this was the case, every single bird that has had a respiratory infection would end up with one and they don't (I've had hundreds of birds under my care and many of them had bacterial infections and none of them ever had a fungal one). As to longer nights... well, if the bird is not kept to a solar schedule, their endocrine system goes out of whack and, when that happens, the immune system suffers so, it's not so much just longer nights but the getting their endocrine system up back in track that helps. But I think that, most likely, it was all the yogurt and carrot (sugar-rich foods been bad for fungal infections) that were not helping with the regurgitation.