Diet Conversion Journey

[Wolf]

Due to the similarity in their habitat and feeding habits, I would assume that cockatiels like budgies eat a lot of grass seed mixes, I find them to be very limited as well as expensive so I only use them for variety in my gloop recipe once in a while at present. I have been considering trying them for sprouting which I think is what they may have been originally intended for as their primary usage. I do not know is that is what they were formulated for original, but when I look at the fact that one of the uses that is mentioned and then I look at the lack of variety in these mixes that is what I think of, sprouting.

The age of a bird when trying to improve their diet seems to be very important as there is a specific time in their development that their parents would teach them about food. That is what to eat, how to eat it, what it looks like and how to find it. Then when I look at what we do with them in this regards I have noted many times that it appears that once the bird is past this time in its normal development that it becomes progressively more difficult to get them to accept new foods. I have also noted that part of this difficulty in getting them to accept new foods appears to be the manner that we go about introducing them to the new foods.

From all of my research into foods and introducing them into the birds diet it appears to me that the best time to introduce any new food to them is after all food has been removed from their cage right after they go to sleep for the night. This produces the state of their being at their most hungry first thing in the mornings which would also be the case if the bird were in the wild. Then I read about how the parent birds would take the young newly fledged birds with them to the feeding grounds and have them perch on a branch where they would be safe. The parent birds would go and get a piece of food and bring it back to the branch and they would then show this food to their young and then they would eat it in front of the young birds. They did not offer them any of the food and then they would go and get another piece of the food and come back and repeat the same thing. finally the young birds would start to beg for the food to no avail, then they begin to demand some of the food which the parent bird also ignore, it is only after the young birds finally attempt to steal some of the food from the parent birds that the parent birds will share the food with them.

Now I am not saying that we should try to do exactly as the parents birds do, but we should be paying attention to how the parent bird do this with their young to get them to try a new food. I do think that we should perhaps borrow from them and eat the food in front of the bird that we want to try a new food and show them the food and give it to them only when they reach the point of demanding the food. I think that following the way that the parents do it can greatly increase our success in getting our birds to try new foods and then when we have gone through the foods for that morning that we should place the rest of it in their cage and let them have it and give them their usual breakfast about an hour after doing this.

[Pajarita]

All this conversation about debates have turned into a debate! Haha, it's all good, I'm glad we can discuss stuff with each other. I'm the one that started the conversation about debates and expressing oneself online, etc. any way. Again, I really appreciate everyone's input and insights.
Back to the topic this is titled after, nothing has really changed diet-wise with my birds. The budgies have steadfastly refused Napoleon's Seed Mix, which I had mixed with Living World parakeet seed mix. The LW mix has a lot of different kinds of seeds so I am happy with just giving them that for seeds and I don't think I'll waste anymore of the Napoleon's on them. Like I said before, my elderly male tiel Herman LOVES Napoleon's and has never eaten better than he is now so that is a success. But the girl tiels still refuse to eat it. It's mixed with another tiel seed mix that they were used to but they just pick around the Napoleon's and leave it in the bowl. I've been doing this for about the last month and they still refuse to eat it. I feel like it shouldn't take this long for them to start eating it, especially because it's just seeds! I'm not even trying to get them to eat fresh foods yet! I can only imagine how hard that's going to be

If you are still free-feeding the seed mix, that is the reason why they are still picking and choosing. Birds will continue eating what they know as long as you don't 'force' them to change. For example, my canary mix has all kinds of grass seeds and they will all first eat what they like/know and leave the rest so what I do is blow the empty hulls of it and put it back. This way, they have no choice but to eat what is there or go hungry. It might sound a bit cold-hearted to do this but it's the only way to ensure they eat a good variety of them (which is necessary because not all seeds have the same amino acids so, if you want them to get a 'balanced' protein intake, they need to eat a variety of them).

You need to start them on cooked grains for the morning and give them the seed mix in the evening and not more than a heaping tablespoon each. If you give them more, they will fill their crop with what they like/know and leave the rest. Contrary to popular belief, birds will not instinctively know what is a healthy diet and, given half a chance, they will only eat what they like best or is familiar to them.

[beakycheekie]

Ok, great information Wolf and Pajarita. Thank you!

[seagoatdeb]

Fruits are usually the easiest to offer first. One way to get parrots to eat more fruits and vegetable is to eat the same in front of them. Another is to play with them with the food. I got Gaugan to eat brocolli, by play fighting with brocolli heads with her She would end up injesting little pieces and eventually she decided brocolli was great to eat when in the mood or a toy when she feels like playing with a piece.

[beakycheekie]

Thanks Seagoatdeb!

[galeriagila]

I would be interested in your thoughts, please.
Some 25 years ago, I converted my 30-year-old Patagonian Conure to Lafeber's pellets (using the recommended gradual substitution of pellet for seed... it worked well), and later, I changed to Harrison's on my vet's advice. Since then, I have left the Harrison's (High Potency, recommended for conures) out all day, and supplemented that with treats of safe human foods. He probably eats about 75% pellets banhd 25% other. He certainly looks and behaves healthily. What do you folks here think? I admit it's been a while since I gave much thought to his diet.
Gila

Edit/Added
By safe human foods, I mean fruits, vegetables, bread, scrambled eggs, peanut butter, cottage cheese, cereal, nuts, whole wheat pasta, fruit juice...
Last I heard, parts of avocados and also chocolates were no-nos...

[Wolf]

Hi galeriagila, I think that you will find this to be somewhat useful, I refer to it rather often
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=12521 There is a list beginning on the second page of the thread that goes into toxic and safe foods, trees, household plants, woods and even household products.

I know that Harrison's high potency is now being recommended to be used daily, but when I first joined this forum and was researching pellets this food was only recommended for older birds or sick birds that needed an extra boost in vitamins and minerals and not for everyday use. I decided against feeding pellets to any of my birds, for many reasons.

Instead of pellets, I decided to feed my birds fresh produce as well as a home made food called gloop, here on this forum, it consists of partly cooked whole grains, mixed vegetables and fully cooked white beans and lentils, and then for dinner I feed a good quality seed mix with a varying amount of tree nuts depending on which bird I am feeding.

What foods to feed our birds can become a highly controversial topic at times especially when it comes to the pellet/ seed choice. There is still a lot of room for improvement in this area because we are just beginning to understand the balances required in nutrition for our very different birds. There has been very little research into the actual diets of the various species of our birds in their natural environments, and although it is doubtful that we will ever be able to duplicate their natural diets, we can learn and try to duplicate the overall nutritional requirements of the different species in time. So the best guide that we actually have is to try and find any research that has been done in this area for our specific species of parrot, and then trying to match the nutritional values of what they naturally eat using the foods that we have available to us in the areas in which we live.

[Pajarita]

Please, Gail, reconsider the eggs (too high in fat and bad cholesterol -bad for the liver), cheese (they are not mammals so they cannot digest anything made with milk), peanut butter (too much sugar = too many simple carbs = fatty liver) and human cereals (HUGELY high in iron which destroys their liver).

I don't feed pellets. I have been doing research on parrots' diets for over 20 years and have reached the conclusion that they are not the best dietary option for them (I can elaborate, if you want). I feed gloop and raw produce for breakfast and all day picking and a good quality, fresh mix of seeds and nuts for dinner.

At his age, you need to be extra careful with his diet (he is not eating enough produce or any whole grains) so I would suggest you do a bit more research about it and, if you haven't done it lately, take him to an avian vet for a complete physical with a bile acids test (to see how his liver is doing -most old birds die from liver failure because of the inappropriate diet we give them in captivity).

[galeriagila]

Wow, thanks to both of you.
Your information gave me chills. I think I've been lax in staying current on these issues.
Okay, eggs and cheese OFF the menu, and as soon as I submit this I am going to go back and study what you wrote. I need to re-think what I'm doing. I will do that. And I know better than to make a sudden change, but rest assured that I am going to start the journey.
I'm grateful!

[galeriagila]

Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd...
After reading and thinking...
Please, what are your recommendations as to how I should proceed...
To nourish my darling.
Sources I previously researched (as early as 1984) projected his lifespan at 30 years, yet, he seems to be in wonderful shape... at 30!
How can I feed him best, please???