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Horrible Breeder

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Horrible Breeder

Postby skeleo » Sun May 15, 2016 1:31 pm

Names: Manu (deceased) and Kala (sick)
Species: Peach faced lovebirds
* Born March 28 and 29
* Adopted Monday, May 9.
* Manu died Friday, May 13 at 6:30 pm.

* Kala started showing symptoms of illness Saturday, May 14 at 9:30 am.
* On May 14 she was 1.3 ounces and on May 15 she was 1.2 ounces.
* Her condition is getting worse

Symptoms
* Manu died within four days of adopting and five hours of symptoms
* Poop on foot
* Weird poop (polyuria) - small, black, watery (black poop means not eating)
* Sleeping all day
* Fluffed up
* Hunched over
* Unresponsive
* Sitting on bottom of cage
* Unbalanced
* Shakey
* Seizure
* Couldn't move legs
* Could barely hold up head
* Same early symptoms found in Kala

I put Kala in a hospital cage with a low perch, food, water, and paper towel liner. She also has a heater near her cage. She is pretty unresponsive, barely opens her eyes or moves, and isn't attempting to eat or drink from what I can tell.

I've purchased four lovebirds over the course of a year from this breeder. She breeds mostly small parrots, including: sun conures, cockateils, budgies, lovebirds, parrotlets, and recently African Grays. They also seem to rescue larger parrots. Their store is called Paws Beaks & Claws, their website is linked here: https://www.facebook.com/pbcavian/photos

This is what the woman who owns the store did:
* Clipped their wings when asked not to and apparently forgot about because she said they flew into a wall and broke their neck
* Forgot to remove the tag on Manu's leg
* Lost papers on all three of the birds I've adopted
* Her health guarantee is only for 10 days after adoption, and even then she tries to find any way out of refunding our money
* Changed her mind: On the phone she said Manu had a respiratory issue and that she would refund our money via check (because they don't have enough money). Then when we went to give her Manu's body she said she thought it was a broken neck and that she would get Manu's body tested for the cause of death and pay us only if it was an illness.
* There's no way they could have ran into wall or mirror: I was watching them the entire time, they aren't skilled enough and they don't have the wings to build enough speed to break their neck, if they had it wouldn't have been a slow health decline, two birds wouldn't have the same symptoms unless they both had a contagious illness, and MANU IS LIFTING HER "BROKEN" NECK UP IN THE VIDEO THAT I SHOWED HER.
* Not taking the blame: Kept accusing me of things and picking at everything I said. When I said I put Kala in the heat and she started to get better, she accused me of having their room too cold. How would the cold affect them breaking their neck? How would the cold cause a seizure?
* And she offered to take Kala back so we wouldn't have to pay for the vet bill, but never said she would take Kala to the vet herself.
* She admitted that she doesn't quarantine new birds for thirty days and allows illnesses to be spread to her flock
* Ignored their symptoms of illness for her benefit. She didn't believe anything I said and insisted that their poop was normal. She said that them sitting on the bottom of the cage was normal because they were babies, but at the store they were always on a perch. This was just to cover up the fact that it was an illness and not a broken neck.
* She showed no sympathy for the death of my bird and blamed it on me
* Out of the four baby lovebirds I've gotten from her, three have been sick and two have died from sickness
* She lied: She was so sure that Manu broke her neck, so why was she so interested in what Kala's vet would say if she didn't think they we're sick.
* She said that Kala was probably just depressed from seeing her friend die, even though they weren't bonded and Kala had the same symptoms of being sick as Manu (not symptoms of depression)

This isn't even mentioning the poor conditions her birds are forced to live in and the forceful way she handles them
* Her larger bird species are in very small cages and she may be breeding them despite their health issues and poor cage maintenance
* She had a disabled bird that didn't form it's top beak and it disappeared within a few months
* Told us that the large birds were rescued and not for sale. But she's breeding and selling them. She bred the African grays and had three hatchlings. Her cockatoo disappeared. Her macaw disappeared and was replaced by an Amazon and female eclectus after she went to a bird show.
* She compromises their safety for her convenience. She has sun conures with zebra finches in an aviary. Clips their wings because it's too hard for her to get them in and out of the aviary. She clips their wings before they can be properly fledged.

So, Kala will be going to vet on Monday if we can get an appointment. I need to know how I can help her until then.
I also want to know what to do about this store. Should I report them? How?

EDIT: Needless to say, I'm not going to be supporting this business anymore. Selling me sick birds was one thing, but the way she treated me afterwards is ridiculous. Please, please make sure to buy birds from a reputable breeder or rescue!! If you're ever unsure or have a baby feeling about something, just don't. Better safe than sorry.... :cry:
Last edited by skeleo on Sun May 15, 2016 3:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
skeleo
Lovebird
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
Posts: 25
Location: Pennsylvania
Number of Birds Owned: 1
Types of Birds Owned: Cockatiel
Flight: Yes

Re: I Was Sold Sick Lovebirds - Please Help

Postby skeleo » Sun May 15, 2016 1:37 pm

Here are some pictures.

Manu's poop (this is after a few days) Their poop was very watery with small black poop.
Image

Kala falling off of her perch
Image

Kala's hospital cage
Image
skeleo
Lovebird
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
Posts: 25
Location: Pennsylvania
Number of Birds Owned: 1
Types of Birds Owned: Cockatiel
Flight: Yes

Re: I Was Sold Sick Lovebirds - Please Help

Postby skeleo » Sun May 15, 2016 2:20 pm

Kala died.. Sunday May 15, 3:00 PM

EDIT: I guess if anyone knows of any reputable lovebird breeders in PA, please share..
skeleo
Lovebird
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
Posts: 25
Location: Pennsylvania
Number of Birds Owned: 1
Types of Birds Owned: Cockatiel
Flight: Yes

Re: Horrible Breeder

Postby Wolf » Sun May 15, 2016 9:08 pm

This is such a terrible thing to have happen and the owner's (store) response is unforgiveable, in my opinion, but I am not sure that you would have any legal options as I am not familiar with the laws in PA. But I would at least report them to the BBB and then try and find out who you could report someone who is selling sick and diseased birds, possibly the CDC as there are diseases carried by birds that are contageous to humans. I don't know if any of this will help, but it is all that I have at this time.
Wolf
Macaw
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
Posts: 8679
Location: Lansing, NC
Number of Birds Owned: 6
Types of Birds Owned: Senegal
African Grey (CAG)
Yellow Naped Amazon
2Celestial Parrotlet
Budgie
Flight: Yes

Re: Horrible Breeder

Postby Pajarita » Mon May 16, 2016 9:47 am

I am sorry for your loss. Unfortunately, there is nothing you can do now. If you had saved the body, had it necropsied and the tissue samples had shown the bird had a contagious disease (like Chlamydiosis -which is what the symptoms seem to point at), the vet would have informed the USDA and they would have made the owner give up the name of the breeder so they could open up an investigation and send an inspector as well as made the owner of the store stop selling the birds, put them in quarantine and medicate them. There was a situation exactly like this at a petstore in Pa where I used to live and my vet was the one that called the USDA on them (these birds had polyoma, though).

Unfortunately, because you have no proof that the birds did die of such a disease, the owner of this store and the breeder of the birds (if it's a different person and not the same) is going to get away with it.

A word of advice for the future: do NOT buy birds in pet stores. Adopt them from a good rescue instead. Nobody who thinks of birds as merchandise is going to take good care of them...
Pajarita
Norwegian Blue
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 18705
Location: NW Pa
Number of Birds Owned: 30
Types of Birds Owned: RoseBreasted too, CAG, DoubleYellowHead Amazon, BlueFront Amazon, YellowNape Amazon, Senegal, African Redbelly, Quaker, Sun Conure, Nanday, BlackCap Caique, WhiteBelly Caique, PeachFace lovebird, budgies,
Flight: Yes

Re: Horrible Breeder

Postby skeleo » Mon May 16, 2016 2:48 pm

The breeder said she was getting Manu's body necropsied, but we're worried that she may lie about the test results. Is it illegal to lie to us?? We still have Kala's body refrigerated and we were planning on giving it to the breeder because we can't afford a necropsy..

I figured it would be alright because it's a local breeder that owns the store, but clearly she's just as bad as a larger store (maybe not as bad as Petco or something though.. :/)

I'm currently looking at parrot rescues in my area, unfortunately they're all over two hours away, but it will be worth it to rescue a healthy bird.
skeleo
Lovebird
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
Posts: 25
Location: Pennsylvania
Number of Birds Owned: 1
Types of Birds Owned: Cockatiel
Flight: Yes

Re: Horrible Breeder

Postby skeleo » Mon May 16, 2016 3:23 pm

My mom apparently talked to the bird breeder today and gave her Kala's body for the necropsy which was at 3. The breeder kept insisting that the diseases couldn't have been from her birds, yet she's going to pay $150 for a test to see if it was. She's being so shady and rude and I'm so upset. She said that she's never had a complaint in 22 years, which I can't imagine that's true considering the way she acts. My mom told her that the illness wasn't from anything in my room and that I had a bird in there and she was fine. This woman had the nerve to say that I killed my bird and neglected her. She doesnt even know me. That is so rude. I loved my bird so much.. Like if she really cared about the conditions of my house she would have inspected our house or something. She doesn't care about anything until it involves her losing money. And she kepts coming up with all of these ridiculous excuses just to make it seem like we don't deserve a refund. She even said that she could "be nasty" and not even give us a refund because we didnt sign any papers for the 10 day guarantee that she promised us. I'm pretty sure thats illegal?? or should be?? I'm so upset idk what to do. I guess we're just going to wait for the necropsy results and hope she refunds our money. :cry:

EDIT: And my mom told her that we don't even use any harsh chemicals, I use dish soap and rinse well for their things. And the lady told us that dish soap isn't safe. As if a tiny amount of dish soap residue on their cage could have caused them to both die! She's ridiculous! :cry: :cry:
skeleo
Lovebird
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
Posts: 25
Location: Pennsylvania
Number of Birds Owned: 1
Types of Birds Owned: Cockatiel
Flight: Yes

Re: Horrible Breeder

Postby Wolf » Mon May 16, 2016 7:43 pm

Well I don't think that the dish soap caused the death, I use vinegar to clean my birds things because I don't trust dish soaps. But you should note that Dawn dish detergent is used to remove oil sludge from birds and other animals when they are affected by an oil spill.

If you have the necropsy done and it comes back as positive for a disease that could be passed from bird to human or from bird to bird, then you have the evidence to have the vet report this and to possibly sue for all associated costs as well as possibly damages, including the cost of the necropsy. I can't tell you for certain because I am not a lawyer.
Wolf
Macaw
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
Posts: 8679
Location: Lansing, NC
Number of Birds Owned: 6
Types of Birds Owned: Senegal
African Grey (CAG)
Yellow Naped Amazon
2Celestial Parrotlet
Budgie
Flight: Yes

Re: Horrible Breeder

Postby Pajarita » Tue May 17, 2016 10:40 am

The breeder is the one getting the necropsy done so if (and that is a big IF) the necropsy is actually done and even if it does come back positive for a contagious disease, I doubt she will admit to it. Basically, by giving her the body, you gave up all your rights and possibility of getting a refund. Personally, I would not worry about the money, I would worry about her selling more sick birds...
Pajarita
Norwegian Blue
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 18705
Location: NW Pa
Number of Birds Owned: 30
Types of Birds Owned: RoseBreasted too, CAG, DoubleYellowHead Amazon, BlueFront Amazon, YellowNape Amazon, Senegal, African Redbelly, Quaker, Sun Conure, Nanday, BlackCap Caique, WhiteBelly Caique, PeachFace lovebird, budgies,
Flight: Yes

Re: Horrible Breeder

Postby skeleo » Tue May 17, 2016 2:12 pm

Ugh this sucks. We have video and picture evidence with time stamps..
skeleo
Lovebird
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
Posts: 25
Location: Pennsylvania
Number of Birds Owned: 1
Types of Birds Owned: Cockatiel
Flight: Yes

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