Natural Diet for Parrots danger of cooked grains

[seagoatdeb]

Food science and all your sources are not credible in my opinion, i have researched and read all they had to say a lot of times. Famous is not credible, but you are welcome to your opinion too and can decide what you think is credible on your own. Food science has been so scewed. We were told all saturated fat is bad and that led to humans getting fat and unhealthy. Now we know there are good raw oils that contain healthy fat. Going back to our more natural diet is never a bad thing, in my opinion. The eating of the same foods every day makes people become allergic, and ill, both because of selective and genetic alteration and contained toxins, such as their own natural toxins and environmental pollutants. This is bad for us and in my opinion bad for our parrots. Grains, milk products and potatoes are the biggest problem for health, as those are eaten by some every single day.

All the so called experts are saying what sells for them. On this topic, I look at people who have improved their health with their diet, in the long term, that is the real test. There are reams of people but as I dont want to turn this into a human health topic, and dont have the time, do your own research on that if you like. There are so many web links, not credible, with so called experts and whatever is said with no long term studies, or good cross comparisons of good diets against other good diets....its like the whole nation is just dumbing down and jumping on band wagons and saying whatever. Also links should say what parts are relavant, as no one wants to read all of what is in all those links only the pertinent part to your argument. Not that i want an argument, we already know your way of thinking and my hope for this topic was more info.

is it possible to get back to parrots and thoughts on the best diet for them, or what people have found out there to help with that? Rehashing this same info, does not lead to anything new or helpfull.

[seagoatdeb]

I obviously did not explain myself correctly. I wasn't arguing about the diets themselves, I was talking about the 'no studies' argument you always use when talking about feeding grains to parrots. The point I was making is that you can't really say that we don't know if diet A (the one I propose) is any good because there are no studies done on it (in reality, there are but it's irrelevant to this comment) when diet B (the one you propose) has had no studies done on it, either. See what I mean?

Since the study of what was in a parrots natural diet is over multi generations it is better than any study out there. i may not be able to get the same foods, but i can make sure their alcalinity is similar and the amounts of seeds greens, fruits and nuts is similar. So what you are saying does not apply.

[Wolf]

As I have said before, I think that parrots, at least the ones that lived on the edges of the forests have eaten various grain all along, although I can't say which grains they were. I do try to stay away from the high gluten grains most of the time and am still looking at this topic.

However, my question, in the interest of feeding a more natural diet, is what do you do for birds that consume a lot of palm nuts that are high in palm oil, such as African Greys?

[Pajarita]

I obviously did not explain myself correctly. I wasn't arguing about the diets themselves, I was talking about the 'no studies' argument you always use when talking about feeding grains to parrots. The point I was making is that you can't really say that we don't know if diet A (the one I propose) is any good because there are no studies done on it (in reality, there are but it's irrelevant to this comment) when diet B (the one you propose) has had no studies done on it, either. See what I mean?

Since the study of what was in a parrots natural diet is over multi generations it is better than any study out there. i may not be able to get the same foods, but i can make sure their alcalinity is similar and the amounts of seeds greens, fruits and nuts is similar. So what you are saying does not apply.

Yes, going back to their natural diet is always best but the thing is that they have been eating grains for many generations and when I mentioned accounts over 200 years old of wild parrots consuming grains, you rejected them as non-valid. But, in any case, how do you know what proportion of any species diet is seeds, fruits, nuts, buds, flowers, insects, etc? Because all I've been able to find is just a list of what they have been observed eating but no actual percentages or proportions so, if you have something we don't have (and I say 'we' because I am pretty sure everybody else here is as much in the dark about this as I am), please share it.

[Pajarita]

Food science and all your sources are not credible in my opinion

a

Well, you are, of course, entitled to your personal opinion but universities offer degrees in Food Science all the way up to PHD - and I am a science-oriented person first and before anything else. I do use personal and other people's experience but when a renown PHD talks, I listen.

[Cage Cleaner]

K

[seagoatdeb]

Food science and all your sources are not credible in my opinion

a

Well, you are, of course, entitled to your personal opinion but universities offer degrees in Food Science all the way up to PHD - and I am a science-oriented person first and before anything else. I do use personal and other people's experience but when a renown PHD talks, I listen.

Yes and food sciences change as we get more information, and schools take longer to change their courses, and almost anyone can become a phd. All they have done is write a disertation and that does not make them an expert except for their opinion in their field of thought and others will have written their dissertation with an opposing opionion. This is a changing field for humans and parrot studies lag far behind. I listen to reknown PHD but do not take what their theory or opinion is as fact, i continue to reserch and compare.

[seagoatdeb]

As I have said before, I think that parrots, at least the ones that lived on the edges of the forests have eaten various grain all along, although I can't say which grains they were. I do try to stay away from the high gluten grains most of the time and am still looking at this topic.

However, my question, in the interest of feeding a more natural diet, is what do you do for birds that consume a lot of palm nuts that are high in palm oil, such as African Greys?

Maybe some one would be able to answer you that has Greys, but my Pois are from Africa too, and I do give them palm oil sometimes and just sprinkle it on their food. I also rely on raw nuts to give the raw esential oils as well.

[Pajarita]

Food science and all your sources are not credible in my opinion

a

Well, you are, of course, entitled to your personal opinion but universities offer degrees in Food Science all the way up to PHD - and I am a science-oriented person first and before anything else. I do use personal and other people's experience but when a renown PHD talks, I listen.

Yes and food sciences change as we get more information, and schools take longer to change their courses, and almost anyone can become a phd. All they have done is write a disertation and that does not make them an expert except for their opinion in their field of thought and others will have written their dissertation with an opposing opionion. This is a changing field for humans and parrot studies lag far behind. I listen to reknown PHD but do not take what their theory or opinion is as fact, i continue to reserch and compare.

You are right, of course, that we continue to learn and find out new things about nutrition but I think that everybody would agree that knowledge of human physiology and our understanding of the digestive system is PRETTY good and accurate by now - especially when it comes to something as simple as measuring PH. And if they say that all food ends up been super acidic in the stomach to later switch to alkaline in the small intestine through the actions of pancreatic enzymes, I don't see any reason to doubt them. But, of course, you are entitled to your opinion and if you don't want to believe this, it's your prerogative.

[seagoatdeb]

You are right, of course, that we continue to learn and find out new things about nutrition but I think that everybody would agree that knowledge of human physiology and our understanding of the digestive system is PRETTY good and accurate by now - especially when it comes to something as simple as measuring PH. And if they say that all food ends up been super acidic in the stomach to later switch to alkaline in the small intestine through the actions of pancreatic enzymes, I don't see any reason to doubt them. But, of course, you are entitled to your opinion and if you don't want to believe this, it's your prerogative.

The fallacy of appealing to higher authority is well known and when i was on the dabating team we were never allowed to use any of the fallacys. This was a very generalized statement to the pont of becoming a fallacy and I will cover that in the next paragraph. We so often die from our diets more than before so I cant agree with you or believe in the newest theory that comes along, when there are people who have been on diets and have concrete evidence of the improvements. The more we understand the more there is to understand. We still have a long way to go.

You posted this " And if they say that all food ends up been super acidic in the stomach to later switch to alkaline in the small intestine through the actions of pancreatic enzymes" ........This is what you do not seem to understand. The food we eat today, tax those systems. More importantly super acid means nothing....what is the exact correct range of ph level for the stomach? What is the correct level for the small intestines? how much is too much?....Those are the important questions that are not anwered by your statement.

Here is a link to help you to understand better. it talks about the acidity and alkalinity in more detail. http://www.enzymestuff.com/digestion.htm But you need to do a lot more research to be able to make a claim like this, since you have no ph levels to make a good argument you can support.

Chris Kessler, who is not even talking about whole raw food diets and is talking about mainly meats, so was not a relevant link in that way, talks about testing through urine, but all whole raw foodists i know do the test with the ph of the skin, since the urine is temporary and not a good indicator of long term changes in the body.

i do want to go through all your links and refute them one by one, there were so many links, they were either from non credible sources or used in a way that did not apply to your argument or to how things really work in the body. It makes it seem like eat whatever you want and your pancreas will fix it all. The pancreas in people has many problems today from overtaxing including but not limited to Hypoglycemia, diabetes and the depleting of digestive enzymes.

I dont even want to have an argument I only wanted more people comenting on what they think of feeding high levels of grains to parrots. You viewpoint is made very clear already, my viewpoint is made as clear as i want to make it, I do not want to lapse into a human health and eating debate, it is a study i have been making for years and my diet and health are already established and argument like that are more suited to groups about human diets. I think more than enough has been said already, and we dont even know the correct ph level for parrots

I would like to talk about parrots. Can we agree to do that?

Here are my main three main points that have caused me to question feeding grain to parrots very often:

1.Parrots ate very little grains in the wild, and many of them never ate them at all.

2. The few grains parrots did eat in the wild were not cultivated by humans and were more easily digestible raw and not like the grains we have cultivated for today. Even though parrots will in recent times eat farmers crops we do not know what that will do to them in the long term.

3. Parrots ate no cooked grains in the wild.