Question about pellets

[lc512618]

Hi!
I'm very torn about pellets. Our vet, who is remarkable, pushed really hard to get us to transition our birds(a Caique and a Senegal) over to pellets. My other half is for it, I've been reluctant but as I'm the primary caretaker, I went along. I've got both of them pretty much completely switched over, they do get Lefeber pelletballs and nutriberries as treats, both of which do contain seed, the pelletballs are on the minimal side. In addition to the various pellets, they get a wide variety of veggies greens and fruits rotated in their diet.

My concern about pellets..... On our last vet visit, she advised us to limit the amount of fresh corn, as it's a carb and our Senegal is obsessed with it. Problem is, almost all of the pellets brands, from the higher end Harrison's on down contain Cornmeal, wheat, soy and sugar in their top four/five ingredients. I'm finding this to be a concern really because our canine/feline vet long aho got us off any foods for our four legged critters that contain grains because these things are hard to digest(even for us). Ugh.

Any thoughts on this? I've not spoken yet to my vet about this, thought I'd toss it out here and see what y'all might think.

Thanks!

[Wolf]

The pellet vs seeds has always been somewhat of a controversial topic mostly because many parrot owners tend to be both opinionated and passionate about their birds. To be quite honest about it, I am not a big fan of pellets, for the very reasons that you have just stated and a few others, so I do not feed pellets.

I am curious as to why your vet wanted you to change over to pellets and to push for it, was there something in your birds bloodwork that was the basis for this? If there was, what was it?

How much and how often are you feeding fresh corn to your birds?

Corn is indeed high in carbs, which breaks down into sugars in the body. This could give your birds an excess of energy that could translate into aggression, if the bird does not fly enough to burn it off. Also sugars that are not used by the body are often stored, in the liver ( I think) as fat and could lead to fatty liver disease. Also an excess of sugar in the bloodstream could lead to diabetes if the bird is not metabolizing it effectively.

Are there any indications of these in the blood work that has been done on your birds? The only accurate test that is available for liver function is a bile acids test as the normal blood work will only indicate liver issues if the liver is in really bad condition.

[Pajarita]

I doubt it was anything in the bloodwork, Wolf, because these birds are VERY young so, even if they had been eating complete crap since birth (which I am sure they haven't), nothing would show in the bloodwork - not yet, anyway.

Now, you can't really compare cats and dogs diets with parrots'. Cats and dogs are carnivore predator mammals with cats still been obligate carnivores to this day and dogs, although now usually able to digest carbs (through a mutation which happened as part of the domestication process from their ancestor grey wolf species) are still better off not eating grains (my dogs and cats foods are completely grain-free). But parrots are herbivores and their natural diet is full of carbs (fruits, grains) and, because fructose (the natural sugar in fruits and corn) is part of their natural diet, they are able to metabolize it much more efficiently than even humans (omnivores). Now, having said that, there is a big difference between cornmeal and fresh corn on the cob! Anything dried to a powder will have higher carbs than the same item fresh and full of water as well as a higher glycemic index. The glycemic index (the effect of sugar in the blood) of fresh corn is 54 while the one for cornmeal is 69 (anything under 55 is considered to have a low glycemic index and healthy) . So, no, fresh corn is not, in any way, unhealthy for parrots (neither is frozen or even canned corn). My parrots are getting A LOT of corn on the cob these days due to three reasons:
1) they are in season and I always try to make their diets as seasonal as possible because that is what nature intended for them.
2) they are easily available and inexpensive.
3) they LOVE it! and, as it is healthy, I don't see any reason for them not to have it.

Avian vets have this thing with carbs... I had an argument with Dr. Harrison about it because he is one of those vets that say that parrots should not eat fruits because of the carbs but for the life of me, I don't know why they say this when parrots in the wild eat fruits all the time! In my personal opinion, the majority of them recommend pellets because they either don't know enough (avian vets don't study parrot nutrition and barely cover avian nutrition although they do study malnutrition and its effects) or because they don't trust the owners to feed them well (this was admitted to me by three different avian vets!).

By the way, my parrots have been eating fresh (or frozen) corn on a daily basis (I use frozen corn in their gloop) for over 20 years - I don't have a single overweight bird and I take in birds with health issues, including fatty liver, a condition with which you have to be very careful not to overfeed carbs (I currently have three birds with liver damage).

Now, pellets versus other diets is, as Wolf said, one of those subject on which people will continue to disagree until we have better studies and, possibly, even after that. I have fed all kinds of diets throughout the years. I started with free-feeding seeds (and I am talking crappy sunflowers and peanuts!) and giving some human food (most of it terrible for them!), switched to Harrison's pellets (for a very short while, actually) but, after an in-depth research on parrots diets and their physiology (I had a parrot that was diagnosed with high uric acid and that's what started me on this quest), I reached the conclusion that pellets are not the best dietary option for them. And it's not because they are made of grains, it's for several other reasons and on which, if you want, I can elaborate.

I can only tell you what I feed my parrots - which is what I have been feeding for many years (although the actual recipe has changed many, many times) and that is gloop and raw produce for breakfast and a good quality seed/nut mix for dinner (with one or two doses of avian vitamins, depending on the season). It works very well for my parrots. They all love their gloop, none of them is overweight, they all get good bloodwork results, and even the ones that have liver damage not only live for much longer than vets think they would, they actually get better on it if the damage is not on its final stages.

[Wolf]

Regardless of whether there was anything in the bloodwork or not, the question remains ie., why would the vet push so hard for pellets, if there were no medical reason for it? I know that if my vet were to start pushing for pellets I would be wanting to know why. And I mean was there something that indicated that my birds were not getting adequate nutrition? Is there some indication of illness? If there is no valid medical reason for changing their diets then why?

[mustafarangoon]

I found out this forum very usefull. I also was told by my store people to give pellets as they are fully nutrition-ed and balance diet. After reading whole thing i have come to a conclusion that we actually dont need pellets for bird because what pajarita stated that they are wild bird and naturally they eat whatever they come across right?

I was thinking that how much food should we give per day? I usually fill my cage bowl about 100gms of Vitapol Karma whole food and then i give 2 tomatoes at night or 1 apple etc..

Is my diet is ok? or should i increase or decrease anything?

[Wolf]

Is this the food that you are giving your bird, http://www.microsofttranslator.com/bv.a ... zych-papug ?

While I do let my birds eat tomato, only the ripe frit and none of the vine or leaves, I don't feed tomatoes every day. I give my birds a different fruit or two every day and at least two different vegetables every day and a different leafy green every day. My birds eat gloop every morning along with the fresh raw produce as described in the paragraph just above this one and then eat a seed mix for their dinner, I started with two heaping tablespoons of the seed mix and adjusted it so that the bird eats most of it before dark.

[Pajarita]

We don't get Vitapol here so it's hard to figure out which one you are feeding because there seems to be both pellets and seeds mixes in the brand. But, you can't just feed tomatoes. My birds love the grape kind (they got them today, as matter of fact) but they get corn, sweet peas, carrots, broccoli, white hominy, sweet potato, butternut squash, green beans, a bit of blue curly kale (very little) and artichoke hearts on a daily basis because these are the ingredients in the basic recipe of gloop but they get other stuff (also on a daily basis) which changes every day - things like apples (all kinds), oranges, pears, peaches, nectarines, cantaloupe, blackberries, blueberries, strawberries, cherries, fresh coconut, bananas, mangoes, papayas, watermelon, kiwis, star fruit, yellow and green zucchini, grapes (green, black, red), Calabaza, black olives, peppers (red, green, yellow and orange), cucumbers, anise root, red radishes, baby potatoes (white, yellow and purple), cauliflower, broccoli-rabe, chicory, escarole, lettuces, cabbages, nappa, celery, etc. They get one fruit, one veggie and one leafy green a day but it's a different one every day so they end up getting a LARGE range of veggies and fruits plus an avian multivitamin/mineral supplement once or twice a week depending on the season.

[seagoatdeb]

Hi!
I'm very torn about pellets. Our vet, who is remarkable, pushed really hard to get us to transition our birds(a Caique and a Senegal) over to pellets. My other half is for it, I've been reluctant but as I'm the primary caretaker, I went along. I've got both of them pretty much completely switched over, they do get Lefeber pelletballs and nutriberries as treats, both of which do contain seed, the pelletballs are on the minimal side. In addition to the various pellets, they get a wide variety of veggies greens and fruits rotated in their diet.

My concern about pellets..... On our last vet visit, she advised us to limit the amount of fresh corn, as it's a carb and our Senegal is obsessed with it. Problem is, almost all of the pellets brands, from the higher end Harrison's on down contain Cornmeal, wheat, soy and sugar in their top four/five ingredients. I'm finding this to be a concern really because our canine/feline vet long aho got us off any foods for our four legged critters that contain grains because these things are hard to digest(even for us). Ugh.

Any thoughts on this? I've not spoken yet to my vet about this, thought I'd toss it out here and see what y'all might think.

Thanks!

Vets often say to give pellets, because they believe it is a way of giving the parrot complete nutrition, but they arent necessary and you should trust your mixed feelings and find what works for you. I dont like to feed too may grains either. For some people a gloop or chop works. I have never been able to use anything too mixed up for my Redbelly, she refuses to eat it. I feed things in chunks, so it is kind of a bigger piece chop. You could limit the corn and feed more vegetables and fruits and some nut.