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CAG Chewing Tail Feathers!

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CAG Chewing Tail Feathers!

Postby NandaTheFae » Sat Dec 17, 2016 7:20 pm

Recently I've noticed that my Congo African Grey has started chewing on her tail feathers.

At first they just looked a bit raggedy but then they started to disappear.
Yesterday, she had about 4 or 5 and then, when I came home today, she had NONE!
I also found a few grey feathers in the bottom of her cage and they'd all been shredded as if she were playing with them.
See pics below:

Image

Image

She has quite an array of toys in her cage (wooden blocks, Popsicle sticks, rope, beads, bells, paper ribbons, etc.) but I never see her touch any of them.

I'm also currently unemployed so I'm spending quite a lot of time with her every day.
I left for a while today only to attend a funeral.
I'm constantly talking at her, teaching her new songs to whistle, things of that nature.
The only time she's not with me is when I put her back on (not in) her cage to watch other birds out the window and soak up her full-spectrum lighting lamp.

Her diet consists of mixed vegetables and eggs daily and a pellet diet of Roudybush Daily Maintenance Diet.

I did *a lot* of research on caring for Greys before deciding her adopt her and I feel like a *COMPLETE* failure right now.
I know my tears wont fix anything, but I'm so fearful of her plucking habitually despite all of the effort I'm putting into helping her stay stimulated.

Please, please provide any advice that you can!
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NandaTheFae
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Gender: This parrot forum member is female
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Location: Baltimore, M.D.
Number of Birds Owned: 3
Types of Birds Owned: Female Congo African Grey.
~Temporarily~
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Re: CAG Chewing Tail Feathers!

Postby Bird woman » Sat Dec 17, 2016 8:37 pm

How long have you had your grey? Should do a vet check with blood panel to rule out health issue. Greys are natorious for plucking if there nutritional needs are not met and they take more calcium in there diet. The eggs you are feeding because of no egg shell isn't doing it , there are certain fresh veggies that provide calcium you should add to her diet. I didn't hear you mention fresh fruit? Have you made any major changes lately and what kind of schedule is she on. Hormones , diet and changes in household is what I would seriously look at AFTER VET CHECK. Very important to rule out a health as a problem. How old is she , how long have you had her what kind of situation did she come from and don't feel like a failure your asking for help and that's the first step. BW
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Flight: Yes

Re: CAG Chewing Tail Feathers!

Postby NandaTheFae » Sat Dec 17, 2016 9:16 pm

Bird woman wrote:How long have you had your grey? Should do a vet check with blood panel to rule out health issue. Greys are natorious for plucking if there nutritional needs are not met and they take more calcium in there diet. The eggs you are feeding because of no egg shell isn't doing it , there are certain fresh veggies that provide calcium you should add to her diet. I didn't hear you mention fresh fruit? Have you made any major changes lately and what kind of schedule is she on. Hormones , diet and changes in household is what I would seriously look at AFTER VET CHECK. Very important to rule out a health as a problem. How old is she , how long have you had her what kind of situation did she come from and don't feel like a failure your asking for help and that's the first step. BW


Thanks for your reply!

I plan to get her to a vet first thing on Monday. This time last month she had a beautiful tail and it really only triggered last night it seems. I'd never come home to find her cage like it is in the pic above before. She is one year and two days old now! I got her at the start of this year, around March, just after she'd been weaned. I got her from a bird-only pet store.

As for her diet, I do my best to get her to eat things like broccoli, kale, carrots, mostly dark green or bright veggies. I've done my best to introduce her to fruits and I still try. Unfortunately she tends to just bite off a piece and immediately sling it across the room. Any tips for getting her to actually *eat* fruits? Sometimes I think she does the same thing with her veggies, honestly...
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NandaTheFae
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Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 9
Location: Baltimore, M.D.
Number of Birds Owned: 3
Types of Birds Owned: Female Congo African Grey.
~Temporarily~
Golden-Winged Amazon
Male Eclectus
Flight: Yes

Re: CAG Chewing Tail Feathers!

Postby Bird woman » Sat Dec 17, 2016 9:31 pm

I took in 2 African greys this year 1 was pretty young , these birds had no idea what fresh fruit and veggies were. Both had terrible feathers . I started the young one out on organic baby food like broccoli and fruit , get a selection and when you eat , spoon feed her a little at a time . This comes in squeeze tubes so you can refrigerate what you don't use. This also comforts them and brings them back to the baby days. Has anything changed or anyone new? Coming or going ? Have you rearranged anything? Don't feed eggs everyday to fatty , not the best protein source. My computers going to die I'll write more tomorrow, start getting diet straightened out make sure 12 hrs dark sleep at night . Pajirta will tell you about solar schedule. BW.
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Bird woman
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Flight: Yes

Re: CAG Chewing Tail Feathers!

Postby Pajarita » Sun Dec 18, 2016 12:52 pm

Yes, she is barbering AND plucking. Now, let's see if we can find out what is making her do this terrible thing to herself.

First thing to tell you is that birds from stores all come from bad breeders (these are the babies that are bought cheap enough by the store to make good money when they resell it, good breeder babies are very expensive) and are not weaned properly (stores don't provide two different kinds of soft food served warm and fresh twice a day) so it is entirely possible that she suffered some type of trauma when young that is only now beginning to come out. There are studies that show that baby birds under stress grow up to be high-strung the rest of their lives and, taking into consideration that grays are naturally high-strung... well, you do the math. I am telling you this because you say you feel like a failure when, in reality, this might be not entirely your fault.

Now, even birds that have been traumatized can be prevented from acting out so let's see if we can make things better for yours.

Diet: hers is not good, my dear. Please don't take this the wrong way but, to me, the proper diet is 75% of good bird husbandry so I tend to be a pain in the neck about this subject. Eggs are a complete no-no for parrots. There isn't a single species of parrots that eats eggs in the wild - not a single one! People think they do their birds a favor by feeding them eggs but this cannot be further from the truth. Eggs are animal protein, parrots are herbivores and, as such, lack the necessary enzymes to properly digest it PLUS they are very high in protein and fat (not good for their kidneys and liver) and, to put the icing on the cake, have lots of bad cholesterol, something parrots, been herbivores and not consuming any bad cholesterol in their natural diets, cannot get rid of the way carnivores and omnivores do.

I don't feed pellets. I've been doing research on parrots natural diets for over 20 years and have reached the conclusion long ago that pellets are not and never will be the best dietary option for parrots (too processed, too dry, inferior ingredients including soy -a known allergen with estrogenic and goitrogenic side effects- man-made vitamins which are not absorbed or utilized as well as food-derived ones, etc). The other problem with pellets is that you don't know how much protein you are feeding because they never tell you exactly what the protein content is (if you look at the nutritional label, you will see it reads: Minimum, Higher than or Not less than). I feed gloop and raw produce for breakfast and a nut/seed mix for dinner with a multivitamin/mineral supplement once or twice a week (mostly for the D3).

You need to get her to eat produce but she never will if you free-feed protein food (pellets). Grays are real picky eaters and the ones that always take the longest in transitioning to a better diet but you need to persist and persist and persist and that means throwing away a lot of good food but it's the only way to get them to eat a good diet. My grays love juicy fruits - things like oranges, cantaloupe, blackberries, blueberries, etc. They love to 'suck' the juice out of them (they hold the fruit in their beak and move their head and tongue so as to extract and swallow the juice).

Now, as to the solar schedule Birdwoman mentioned. She needs to wake up with dawn (from beginning to end with no artificial lights on until the sun is completely out and you see sunrays coming in through the windows), then, about an hour after dawn (there can be no food in her cage) you feed the raw produce and eat it with her (it's the best way to make them eat any new food) and then and only then you give her the rest of her breakfast (gloop, chop, mash, whatever). When the sun is halfway down to the horizon (this happens very early this time of the year because we are going into the winter equinox in a few days), you turn off all the artificial lights and give her dinner (this should be her protein food: pellets, if you so decide - I feed nuts and a bit of seeds) and allow her to fall asleep as night falls naturally. Keeping birds to a solar schedule is the ONLY way to keep their endocrine system healthy and in tune with the seasons because, when you keep birds to a human light schedule (artificial lights on before sunrise and after sunset), they produce sexual hormones all year round (which doesn't happen in nature in any species of bird) which, in time, causes them physical discomfort and pain (their gonads grow overly large and displace other organs).

You mention a full spectrum light but you did not mention the specs (CRI and KTemp) or the distance it's placed above her cage, can you give us those details? Because, as the light industry is completely unregulated, manufacturers can claim anything they want on the label even if it's not true -they even re-labeled reptile light bulbs as avian even though these bulbs are actually dangerous to the birds- so it falls to us to do our due research and make sure that the light is, indeed, adequate for the bird.
Pajarita
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Gender: This parrot forum member is female
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Flight: Yes

Re: CAG Chewing Tail Feathers!

Postby NandaTheFae » Sun Dec 18, 2016 2:10 pm

Pajarita wrote:Yes, she is barbering AND plucking. Now, let's see if we can find out what is making her do this terrible thing to herself.

First thing to tell you is that birds from stores all come from bad breeders (these are the babies that are bought cheap enough by the store to make good money when they resell it, good breeder babies are very expensive) and are not weaned properly (stores don't provide two different kinds of soft food served warm and fresh twice a day) so it is entirely possible that she suffered some type of trauma when young that is only now beginning to come out. There are studies that show that baby birds under stress grow up to be high-strung the rest of their lives and, taking into consideration that grays are naturally high-strung... well, you do the math. I am telling you this because you say you feel like a failure when, in reality, this might be not entirely your fault.

Now, even birds that have been traumatized can be prevented from acting out so let's see if we can make things better for yours.

Diet: hers is not good, my dear. Please don't take this the wrong way but, to me, the proper diet is 75% of good bird husbandry so I tend to be a pain in the neck about this subject. Eggs are a complete no-no for parrots. There isn't a single species of parrots that eats eggs in the wild - not a single one! People think they do their birds a favor by feeding them eggs but this cannot be further from the truth. Eggs are animal protein, parrots are herbivores and, as such, lack the necessary enzymes to properly digest it PLUS they are very high in protein and fat (not good for their kidneys and liver) and, to put the icing on the cake, have lots of bad cholesterol, something parrots, been herbivores and not consuming any bad cholesterol in their natural diets, cannot get rid of the way carnivores and omnivores do.

I don't feed pellets. I've been doing research on parrots natural diets for over 20 years and have reached the conclusion long ago that pellets are not and never will be the best dietary option for parrots (too processed, too dry, inferior ingredients including soy -a known allergen with estrogenic and goitrogenic side effects- man-made vitamins which are not absorbed or utilized as well as food-derived ones, etc). The other problem with pellets is that you don't know how much protein you are feeding because they never tell you exactly what the protein content is (if you look at the nutritional label, you will see it reads: Minimum, Higher than or Not less than). I feed gloop and raw produce for breakfast and a nut/seed mix for dinner with a multivitamin/mineral supplement once or twice a week (mostly for the D3).

You need to get her to eat produce but she never will if you free-feed protein food (pellets). Grays are real picky eaters and the ones that always take the longest in transitioning to a better diet but you need to persist and persist and persist and that means throwing away a lot of good food but it's the only way to get them to eat a good diet. My grays love juicy fruits - things like oranges, cantaloupe, blackberries, blueberries, etc. They love to 'suck' the juice out of them (they hold the fruit in their beak and move their head and tongue so as to extract and swallow the juice).

Now, as to the solar schedule Birdwoman mentioned. She needs to wake up with dawn (from beginning to end with no artificial lights on until the sun is completely out and you see sunrays coming in through the windows), then, about an hour after dawn (there can be no food in her cage) you feed the raw produce and eat it with her (it's the best way to make them eat any new food) and then and only then you give her the rest of her breakfast (gloop, chop, mash, whatever). When the sun is halfway down to the horizon (this happens very early this time of the year because we are going into the winter equinox in a few days), you turn off all the artificial lights and give her dinner (this should be her protein food: pellets, if you so decide - I feed nuts and a bit of seeds) and allow her to fall asleep as night falls naturally. Keeping birds to a solar schedule is the ONLY way to keep their endocrine system healthy and in tune with the seasons because, when you keep birds to a human light schedule (artificial lights on before sunrise and after sunset), they produce sexual hormones all year round (which doesn't happen in nature in any species of bird) which, in time, causes them physical discomfort and pain (their gonads grow overly large and displace other organs).

You mention a full spectrum light but you did not mention the specs (CRI and KTemp) or the distance it's placed above her cage, can you give us those details? Because, as the light industry is completely unregulated, manufacturers can claim anything they want on the label even if it's not true -they even re-labeled reptile light bulbs as avian even though these bulbs are actually dangerous to the birds- so it falls to us to do our due research and make sure that the light is, indeed, adequate for the bird.


Gosh. It's so brain-wrecking when you do a ton of research and find different "facts" everywhere you look. From my reading I'd taken that eggs were fine in moderation (she'd get no more than half of an egg [boiled or scrambled] a day.) so I never thought it was bad for her. I will cut that out of her diet. Do you have any favorite gloop recipes that you could recommend for a bird who's never tried any before?

So basically keep no food in her cage on a continuous basis, right? Just offer fresh produce in the morning when they're in foraging mode and provide protein for dinner. Throughout the day what should be available for her? Just more fresh food? Should I periodically offer her gloop throughout the day? I'm hopeful that, without the pellets around to feast on, she'll be more prone to try fresh foods. I've tried them raw, cooked, mashed, chopped, full-pieces, eating them in front of her, hiding them with pellets, all sorts of stuff to get her to eat some but she just slings them on the floor. I was so scared of her eating nothing that I never took the pellets away for extended periods.

She has one of the Zoo Med AvianSun Deluxe Floor Pet Lamps that uses a Zoo Med 24975 Avian Sun 5.0 Uvb Compact Fluorescent Lamp, 26W bulb. I have switched it from hovering over her cage to hovering over her play stand that she sits on with me throughout the day. I'd say it's about 2.5'-3' above her stand.

I have an appointment to take her to an avian vet tomorrow morning. I'm hopeful that I'll be able to afford all the test required in order to make sure that nothing is physically wrong with her.
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NandaTheFae
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Gender: This parrot forum member is female
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Location: Baltimore, M.D.
Number of Birds Owned: 3
Types of Birds Owned: Female Congo African Grey.
~Temporarily~
Golden-Winged Amazon
Male Eclectus
Flight: Yes

Re: CAG Chewing Tail Feathers!

Postby Bird woman » Sun Dec 18, 2016 4:03 pm

There are several ways to insure proper nutrition, I have 10 parrots mostly big ones and although I agree with pajirta about the diet I still have pellets (good quality organic) that my birds get in there mix and around different areas of the house so they can forage. The pellet diet is probably one of the biggest and hottest debates , but most that recommend them { manufacturers and vets } will tell you at least 20 to 25% of there diet should be fresh organic veggies and fruit in that order! I'm pretty sure the pellets were invented because most people used to think peanuts and sunflower seeds was a great diet and of course they'd gobble them up. As far as the fresh chop goes I'm still trying new things and experimenting with the likes and dislikes of the fids and I've been at it for 17 years.please don't become overwhelmed with the process of a healthy diet , just remember just like us white bread , flour , unhealthy fats , processed anything , salt , sugars , all that stuff that's no good is no good for our fids. Why don't you just try to ease into it and remember there more likely to try something if your eating it. Cooked sweet potato , corn {fresh or frozen} melon etc is a good place to start. A nice chopped green salad with grated carrots apples , romaine in a plate is fun for both. Put your dressing out of reach and she will think your eating together. Great for bonding. Also a complete blood panel and if your bird has not been truly DNA sexed then ask them to do that to , it will save you money in the long run and the vet will be able to rule out a lot of things that can go wrong in the future just by knowing the true sex. I have a max that is now Maxine and a Mathew that used to be Matilda :lol: Try making a carrot ,apple and kale smoothie or just carrot and apple , my birds always want what's in my cup and it's good for you to. Don't over think this or you will drive yourself crazy :shock: baby steps just no garbage and go slow don't overwhelm your bird because there's already a problem and we don't want to add to it by changing to much and confusing her until the health report card is in!!! :thumbsup: BW:thumbsup:
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Bird woman
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Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 869
Location: Southern , Oregon
Number of Birds Owned: 10
Types of Birds Owned: 2 mollucans, 2 LSC'S, 2 macaws, 1 bare-eye, 1 grey, 1 goffin and max the quaker
Flight: Yes

Re: CAG Chewing Tail Feathers!

Postby NandaTheFae » Sun Dec 18, 2016 5:06 pm

Bird woman wrote:There are several ways to insure proper nutrition, I have 10 parrots mostly big ones and although I agree with pajirta about the diet I still have pellets (good quality organic) that my birds get in there mix and around different areas of the house so they can forage. The pellet diet is probably one of the biggest and hottest debates , but most that recommend them { manufacturers and vets } will tell you at least 20 to 25% of there diet should be fresh organic veggies and fruit in that order! I'm pretty sure the pellets were invented because most people used to think peanuts and sunflower seeds was a great diet and of course they'd gobble them up. As far as the fresh chop goes I'm still trying new things and experimenting with the likes and dislikes of the fids and I've been at it for 17 years.please don't become overwhelmed with the process of a healthy diet , just remember just like us white bread , flour , unhealthy fats , processed anything , salt , sugars , all that stuff that's no good is no good for our fids. Why don't you just try to ease into it and remember there more likely to try something if your eating it. Cooked sweet potato , corn {fresh or frozen} melon etc is a good place to start. A nice chopped green salad with grated carrots apples , romaine in a plate is fun for both. Put your dressing out of reach and she will think your eating together. Great for bonding. Also a complete blood panel and if your bird has not been truly DNA sexed then ask them to do that to , it will save you money in the long run and the vet will be able to rule out a lot of things that can go wrong in the future just by knowing the true sex. I have a max that is now Maxine and a Mathew that used to be Matilda :lol: Try making a carrot ,apple and kale smoothie or just carrot and apple , my birds always want what's in my cup and it's good for you to. Don't over think this or you will drive yourself crazy :shock: baby steps just no garbage and go slow don't overwhelm your bird because there's already a problem and we don't want to add to it by changing to much and confusing her until the health report card is in!!! :thumbsup: BW:thumbsup:


Gosh, I am so thankful for your support. I think I am most certainly fretting too much over this; especially since she hasn't seen the vet yet. I just feel like the worst parront *ever* and I tried so hard to educate myself before providing a home for a Grey. I am anxious to get her (she was DNA sex tested) to the vet tomorrow just in case something is physically wrong with her like a skin condition or something of the sort. At least that will give me some peace if we can find some definitive answers.

I'll definitely try making salads and welcoming her to munch on them with me. I also have a juicer and I saw that a few people suggest putting fruit juice on veggies to encourage them to eat them. I know that the fiber in fruits are good though so I'm gonna keep trying to get her to eat some sort of fruit rather than throwing it around. I try to make sure not to encourage any interest she has in processed crap that we eat and keep her limited to fresh, organic stuff. I think I'll try some lentils or quinoa to see how she takes to that. I know for sure that she loves corn and sweet potato is a good idea!
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NandaTheFae
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Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 9
Location: Baltimore, M.D.
Number of Birds Owned: 3
Types of Birds Owned: Female Congo African Grey.
~Temporarily~
Golden-Winged Amazon
Male Eclectus
Flight: Yes

Re: CAG Chewing Tail Feathers!

Postby Bird woman » Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:00 pm

Hey why don't you go to the grocery store and pick up a couple of those squeeze pouches of organic gerbers baby food , it's usually a veggie and fruit blends or like sweet potato veg and fruit what ever is closest in familiarity to what she eats and try a little spoon feeding , I'm curious :D and did you say what her name is? BW
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Bird woman
Amazon
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 869
Location: Southern , Oregon
Number of Birds Owned: 10
Types of Birds Owned: 2 mollucans, 2 LSC'S, 2 macaws, 1 bare-eye, 1 grey, 1 goffin and max the quaker
Flight: Yes

Re: CAG Chewing Tail Feathers!

Postby NandaTheFae » Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:55 pm

Bird woman wrote:Hey why don't you go to the grocery store and pick up a couple of those squeeze pouches of organic gerbers baby food , it's usually a veggie and fruit blends or like sweet potato veg and fruit what ever is closest in familiarity to what she eats and try a little spoon feeding , I'm curious :D and did you say what her name is? BW


I certainly will! I hope that she'll take to it; I'll definitely let you know. Her name is Quetzie, or Baby Q for short! I named her after the Quetzalcoatlus; a pterosaur from the Late Cretaceous period.
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NandaTheFae
Parakeet
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 9
Location: Baltimore, M.D.
Number of Birds Owned: 3
Types of Birds Owned: Female Congo African Grey.
~Temporarily~
Golden-Winged Amazon
Male Eclectus
Flight: Yes

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