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Reactions to Switched Pellets

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Reactions to Switched Pellets

Postby Flyingbird » Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:19 pm

We have an eleven month old peach fronted conure who was on an all seed diet from a specialized bird store. We gradually switched him to Harrison's high potency pellets (of course we supplement with fresh fruit and vegetable as directed in the packet) and he was doing well on it. However, we needed to find a pellet that we can use on weekends, due to Harrison's is prone to spoilage and other reasons, although we know the importance of regularly feeding fresh food daily. 

After hearing a lot of good about Roudybush maintenance, we decided to try that. However, after increasing the amount using it for one of his main meals, he started to act very frantic after eating it. He looked very uncomfortable and was making quick involuntary movements upwards with his wings - is this called wing flipping? Moreover, he was trying to fly on us, calling us and desperately trying to get on our shoulder ( he never usually tries so hard as we do not allow him there.) He rejected all his toys, which was very unusual with him. He also did not allow us to put him back in his cage for hours which is otherwise very easy to do with him. We realized that something was very wrong. After some researching and observing his symptoms, we concluded that it was an allergic reaction to one of the ingredients in Roudybush.  The next morning we switched completely back to his regular diet and he looked more or less back to his usual self. 

One of our questions is that we are still confused about what the allergen really was. After comparing the (main) ingredients of both the foods, we guessed that it could have been the wheat in Roudybush, as that was a big difference we could spot. It lists wheat second in Roudybush and Harrison's does not seem to have that. Is that conclusion accurate and if not, what else could it have been? The ingredients are below.

Harrison's High Potency Super Fine

*Hulled Gray Millet, *Hull-less Barley, *Corn, *Toasted Soybeans, *Peanut Kernels, *Sunflower Kernels, *Peas, *Lentils, *Toasted Oat Groats, *Brown Rice, *Chia, *Alfalfa, Calcium Carbonate, Bentonite, Mixed Tocopherals (a source of Vitamin E), *Sea Kelp, Salt, *Algae Meal, Vitamin/Mineral Supplement (Vitamin A Palmitate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, dl-Alpha Tocopheryl Acetate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, d-Calcium Pantothenate, Niacin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Biotin, Thiamine Mononitrate, Folic Acid, Zinc Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Sodium Selenite, Calcium Carbonate and *Sunflower Oil).

*CERTIFIED ORGANIC INGREDIENT

Roudybush Maintenance

Ingredients: Ground Corn, Ground Wheat, Soy Meal, Soy Oil, Calcium Carbonate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Salt, DL-Methionine, L-Arginine, Niacin, Mixed Tocopherols (Preservative), Silicon Dioxide (anti-caking aid), Rapeseed Oil, Citric Acid (Preservative), Lecithin, Rosemary Extract, Alpha Tocopherol Acetate (Source of Vitamin E), Ascorbic Acid, Manganese Sulfate, Yucca schidigera Extract, Hydrated Sodium Calcium Aluminosilicate, Dried Yeast, Biotin, Calcium Pantothenate, Zinc Oxide, Riboflavin, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Vitamin A Acetate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (Source of Vitamin K), Ethylenediamine Dihydriodide (Source of Iodine), Vitamin D3 Supplement (Source of Vitamin D3), Folic Acid, Cyanocobalamin (Source of Vitamin B12), Sodium Selenite, Propionic Acid (Preservative), Ammonium Hydroxide, Acetic Acid, Sorbic Acid, Tartaric Acid, and Natural Apple Flavouring.

Going back to finding an alternative for Harrison's sometimes, we tried to find a safe pellet without wheat and any possible allergen. We decided to try TOPs.  We have given him some a few days in a row with Harrison's as the main meal, but today was the first day we used it as one of his two meals. He did not eat a lot of it, but his poop was more watery and he was going more often. He got Harrison's as his next meal, but did not eat much of that either. His stomach seems slightly upset.

 1) Is it normal that when he is eating a new food that he is not used to, that his stomach gets upset? b) How can we help his upset tummy? 2) Do you think that he will adjust to TOPs or does it not suit him for some reason? He will get his regular food tomorrow. We would gradually like to introduce an alternative that works for him. TOPs looked very safe that way. 3) What do you all suggest? b) Any other safe pellet you could recommend would be nice.

Thank you all for your help. :gcc:
Flyingbird
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Re: Reactions to Switched Pellets

Postby Bird woman » Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:15 pm

If you must feed pellets then I would feed the tops. I'm just in the process of switching all my newcomers over to tops but my birds get 2 fresh meals daily. There are some great recipes for chop on the net or here and as always fresh is best! If your bird has allergys feeding fresh is a good way to isolate the problem food and be able to control his nutritional intake. BW
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Re: Reactions to Switched Pellets

Postby Pajarita » Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:40 am

Well, for one thing, I would rethink the 'High Potency' because they are WAAAAAY too high in protein for any conure (they are supposed to eat between 10 to 14% protein, depending on the season and high potency has a minimum -they don't even give you the actual content- of 18%).

I have a PFC myself -Pablo Naranjo is an old (age unknown but has to be more than 25) wild-caught ex-breeder which is severely handicapped and has liver damage, too but I don't feed him pellets at all (all of my birds are on a fresh food diet). I've been doing research on parrots natural diets for over 20 years (23 to be exact) and have long ago reached the conclusion that pellets are not and never will be the best dietary option for parrots. I feed gloop accompanied by raw produce (one leafy green, one fruit, one veggie daily but a different one each day of the week) for breakfast and all day picking and a good quality, protein and fat appropriate seed/nut mix for dinner. This diet, along with one or two days of a multivitamin/mineral supplement, has worked wonders for my birds (even the ones with medical conditions). But, if I had no choice but to feed a pellet, I would only use Tops and no other.

I don't know why your bird got an 'upset stomach' but I doubt it's because of the Tops pellets - they are not only organic but they are also the ONLY pellets that are made out of human grade ingredients (the others all use 'feed' quality which is inferior), contain no soy (a known allergen) and use food-derived vitamins and minerals (the others all use lab-made).
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Re: Reactions to Switched Pellets

Postby Flyingbird » Thu Jun 22, 2017 5:37 pm

Dear Birdwoman and Pajarita,

Sorry for the delayed response but I wish to let you know that I much appreciate your time and advice. We stopped Tops thereafter and continued with Harrison's, whereby his poop improved. However, he began to eat much less in general (including his fresh fruit/vegetable snacks), but strangely has begun to gain weight. We are taking him to the avian vet just to make sure that he is okay. Will be in touch.
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Re: Reactions to Switched Pellets

Postby ParrotsForLife » Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:47 pm

"TOPS was formulated by people who apparently don't know what they're doing, and it does not make any attempt at nutritional completeness. Unlike the major pellet brands that hire professional animal nutritionists (many with PhDs) who can come as close to nutritional completeness as humanly possible."

"This link discusses the claims made on the TOPS website and how far off base they are: http://www.littlefeatheredbuddies.com/i ... cting.html It doesn't mention TOPS by name, but this link proves that TOPS made these claims: https://topsparrotfood.com/ingredient-highlights/ "
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Re: Reactions to Switched Pellets

Postby ParrotsForLife » Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:48 pm

I thought TOPS were bad but really they just aren't nutritionally complete though with any Pellet I wouldn't feed them alone anyway so I don't see a difference lol
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Re: Reactions to Switched Pellets

Postby Pajarita » Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:25 am

Well, you are not going to get me to defend ANY pellet, that's for sure! But the contention that other pellet manufacturers provide 'close to complete' nutrition is very disingenuous. They don't. No commercially prepared food does for parrots. And it doesn't matter how many PhDs a pellet manufacturer hires because they cannot know what nobody else does from lack of information and, even if we did have the information, they would have to produce hundreds of different pellets so each species would get what they are supposed to get in the wild according to the season - an impossible task! I just glanced at the whole thing and found many mistakes in this person's analysis. For one thing, not all birds can synthetize C as it's stated here, for another, birds do not need B12 if they eat a fresh food diet. Also, when you talk about balanced digestibility of amino acids, it's more about the combination of amino acids that a herbivore is supposed to eat. I also do not agree with her/his defense of soy and my problem with it has nothing to do with the toxins. And there are more things that I disagree with but I am not going to go into every single thing because, as I said before, I don't really defend any pellet.
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Re: Reactions to Switched Pellets

Postby ParrotsForLife » Fri Jun 23, 2017 10:32 am

As I said nobody should be feeding pellets alone anyway even if it is nutritionally complete so really I see all Pellets as treats
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Re: Reactions to Switched Pellets

Postby Pajarita » Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:25 am

My mind kept on coming back to this thread and the criticism of Tops pellets and I couldn't figure out what was bothering me about it because Lord knows that I only recommend Tops as the lesser evil of all pellets - and then I realized what it was! It's the fact that they are not really criticizing the pellet itself but what the manufacturer says about the ingredients! I mean, don't misunderstand me, I am all for 100% accuracy but manufacturers have and always will make the ingredients of their products sound like the best thing ever! If you want to criticize a pellet because you don't think that the pellet and/or the ingredients are any good, by all means do it (and I will join on the critique and add to it, most likely) but splitting hairs about an ingredient being described exaggerating the 'healthiness' of it? Give me a break! How uselessly petty is that?!
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Re: Reactions to Switched Pellets

Postby PatrickAlan » Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:47 pm

Pajarita wrote:My mind kept on coming back to this thread and the criticism of Tops pellets and I couldn't figure out what was bothering me about it because Lord knows that I only recommend Tops as the lesser evil of all pellets - and then I realized what it was! It's the fact that they are not really criticizing the pellet itself but what the manufacturer says about the ingredients! I mean, don't misunderstand me, I am all for 100% accuracy but manufacturers have and always will make the ingredients of their products sound like the best thing ever! If you want to criticize a pellet because you don't think that the pellet and/or the ingredients are any good, by all means do it (and I will join on the critique and add to it, most likely) but splitting hairs about an ingredient being described exaggerating the 'healthiness' of it? Give me a break! How uselessly petty is that?!



The one thing I love about Bea, is that she is brilliant! Bea and I have had numerous discussions regarding numerous topics, and I am one of her greatest fans because she knows science and she knows Birds. In all honesty, I find it rather humorous that bird owners critique bird food, when we are not infact the ones Eating the food. The bottom line is that our Birds will or will not accept and eat a certain food. Since we can not force any food down their throats, we have to be very observant and watch closely as to what foods our birds gravitate to.

My Senegal Parrot, JoJo, refuses to eat TOPS Pellets. Infact, to me they look like Rabbit Food, so I'm not surprised my Parrot refuses to eat them. They may be considered by some to be the Ultimate and Very Best in the world of Pellets, but the bottom line is my bird will not eat them.
The only Pellet my Senegal will eat is ZUPREEM NATURAL. She has refused Roudybush as well.
My JoJo enjoys her pellets and her Nutriberries, as well as her fresh, natural fruits & vegetables and occasional nuts. She's happy. I'm happy.
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