Help with Toe Injury

[Marc Sanford]

Hi All,

New user, this is a great forum.

Our 21 year old female sun conure (flighted, very healthy for her age, very regular avian vet checkups), recently injured her foot somehow. On 20 December she was limping on her right claw, so we took her in. Nothing could be detected, and she had some weak grip strength. It improved enough where we took her in to get her scheduled lupron shot and gentle nail trim on 31 December. (Nail buffer used on the toe, in-room vet appointment so she is monitored). She seemed to be doing better but on 11 January I noticed one of her back toes (the inner one) on her right claw was curled in the wrong direction, to the front of her foot, and she was limping. Back to the vet we went, x rays, no broken bones indicated anywhere.

So imagine a regular parrot foot but three toes in the front now, one is the back one upside down but now front facing, and one regular toe in the back.

The vet tried putting her in ball cast with the toe in the right direction, but that lasted 2.5 hours as her only goal in life was to get it off and she was almost injured herself big time in her little carrier on the way home. She chewed halfway through the ball cast so we had to take the rest off.

She has been on Melaxicom medication since but the toe is not improving now (1 Feb.) The vet is stating that as its a soft tissue injury, it may never heal or get better, or go back to its regular position, and we have to watch for ulcers developing on her bad toe and in a worst case amputate the toe.

Looking for any helpful advice. Are there any other medications we can try to help in case its a nerve injury? Rehab exercises? Anyone have this happen and the bird recover?

SHe is active still, flying, dealing with her "new" toe, but I hate to see her limping and in pain.

Thanks for any help please

[Pajarita]

Hi, Marc and welcome to the forum! First of all, I am sorry your poor little bird is going through this.

Now, I am NOT an avian vet but I have a bit of experience with older, sick or hurt birds so I will share my thoughts with you. For one thing, I would like to determine if she is in pain and if there is paralysis in this toe (I can tell you how to check, if you wish). For another, although I've had birds that have had the same thing you mention, they came to me that way so I don't really know what caused it or if anything can be done if one catches it immediately but I have never seen or heard of a bird that ends up with toe in a completely unnatural position through soft tissue damage. I am not saying it cannot happen, all I am saying is that although soft tissue damage is VERY common in birds, I've never known it to happen to a single toe, it's always the wings. When a bird gets a wing hurt through any sort of trauma (bite or hit or whatever) and it suffers soft tissue damage, what you see is a 'droopy wing' that hurts when the bird moves it. In time, the pain goes away but if the trauma was severe enough to tear a tendon (this is usually what happens with wings) and the tendon doesn't grow back together, the bird will have no pain but it will not be able to move the wing normally -there will be a range of movement but not complete and in almost all cases, the bird cannot fold the wing close to its body when in a resting position.

The other thing that could have caused this is a mild stroke (did she move 'weird' in any other way when you first noticed it? did the foot always have the same strength from the very beginning or has it improved with time?). The reason why I mention stroke is that she is no longer a young bird (parrots in captivity age much sooner than the ones in the wild) and that she is getting Lupron for which stroke is a side effect, most especially after long term (which is NEVER recommended for humans or animals but, most especially, with birds because they have a completely different way of cycling their sexual hormone production and because it affects the liver -and liver is the weakest point of a pet parrot's health). I don't know how long she has been getting Lupron and I would assume that your vet explained the dangers of using it in birds and how easy it is to get the bird's hormonal problem under control without any medication so I am hoping that this is just a temporary measure and that she has not been getting it for long (also because shots are real bad for birds as they damage muscle tissue something terrible in them...).

So, if this was my bird, I would first determine if the other toes and affected foot is normal and if there is pain. If the rest of the foot was OK and there was no or very little pain, I would do physical therapy on it and wrap the perches with something soft so her 'under' toe doesn't get ulcers - I would also put padded platforms for her to stand on. But, I would also take her off Lupron ASAP and metacam (it's also real bad for the liver!) allow her endocrine system to go back to a natural function (because a messed up endocrine system means a depressed immune system among other things).

[Marc Sanford]

Hi Pajarita,

Thanks so much for your reply and good thoughts.

In terms of the lupron, its been a tough decision but she has had to have 2 egg implosions previously due to stuck eggs. (she passed previously about 3 before the next got stuck). We have been pretty vigilant but she is a troublemaker and despite our attempts (which always can be improved somewhere, Im sure), she has managed to continue to show reproductive behavior strongly between ages 6-20. Mitigating some of the lupron is that she is flighted and has exceptional space to fly in, and she is very young for her age (for an indoor bird), with regular blood work showing no issues so far. However, we hear you on the Lupron issue.

We do not think it was a stroke, she never moved in a strange way or exhibited any deficit that we could easily see.

FOr the injury, she had normal strength, then whatever happened occurred, then she was limping mildly on the leg with less claw strength, then later this toe showed up in the wrong position one day. It is very hard to determine.

So yes, if you could let us know how we can determine the pain/paralysis, how to check, that would be very good (and any rehab exercises please). The other toes are not effected, she is using them normally on the same foot.

Thanks so much!!!

[Pajarita]

Well, in reality, you have already answered. She had impaired function of the foot and, possibly, also leg and decreased strength so a mild stroke or some other sort of cardiovascular episode could have been the cause. One thing you can do to see is towel her, put her on your lap with her feet up in the air and put your small finger to her good foot - this should make her grab your finger strongly. Then do the same thing with the other foot and see if the strength is the same -leaving aside the fact that her toe is in the wrong position, of course, but, if it was trauma to the bad toe, her other 'fingers' should move and grab with the same speed and strength as her good foot.

Another thing you should do is, very, very gently and very, very slowly, looking and listening to her reaction, straighten the bad toe. If she suddenly pulls back, twitches or vocalizes in an abrupt manner, there is pain. Pain is good because it means that this is an injury and not a cardiovascular problem.

But, either way, you can do physical therapy on it by gently stretching it and letting go so it curls up again, then stretching it out, again, etc. The only thing is that, if there is pain, you will have to continue 'testing the waters' until there is no more pain before you start the therapy. In the meantime, use platforms and padding on the surfaces she uses for perching or standing.

Now, as to her being overly hormonal and becoming eggbound... I don't know how much you know about these things but they are easily preventable. All it requires is following Nature's rules which translates into proper bird husbandry and supplements. Mind you, I am not criticizing you! It's a fact that breeders and even avian vets do not explain everything owners need to know - they might not even know it themselves! But I can tell you that I've had birds my entire life, I have bred canaries for what? 30 years? and cared for hundreds and hundres of birds (I used to run a rescue) and I have never, ever had an eggbound bird or currently have any bird that lays off season (which means their endocrine system is performing exactly as it should). If you are interested, I can explain in detail but, basically, what's required is that the bird is kept at a strict solar schedule and a low protein diet during the resting season with supplements for D3 and Calcium. Keeping birds healthy and happy is NOT easy... People usually think of birds as low maintenance, fragile pets with short lives but this cannot be further from the truth! They are actually quite hardy and VERY VERY difficult to keep well long term.

[Marc Sanford]

Thank you for the continued helpful and much appreciated responses. Absolutely agree with you that these guys are not easy, and if I could--after all these years of having a parrot--institute one thing in life it would be way better education prior to allowing any bird to be purchased to help ensure the owner understands the commitment and dedication needed. Too many birds end up homeless or returned or unwanted.

That being said of course we absolutely adore ours. Yes, PLEASE we would be grateful for your tips on preventing egg laying as you noted below. Part of the reason not to PM you is to keep your wonderfully educational post open to all.

Thank you for the advice on the rehab. She has a follow on appointment today at her vet so will discuss all of this.

In the meantime, looking forward to hearing your experience, and how bet to get the supplemental vitamins into her?

THANK YOU!

[Pajarita]

Well, the main thing to do is to keep them at a strict solar schedule with full exposure to dawn and dusk (at least, 1.5 hours of each -I do two hours). The reason for this is that all birds are photoperiodic -this is a long word that, basically, means that birds regulate their endocrine system (the one that tells the body which 'period' or season of the year it is) by the type and amount of light it receives. Birds are different from mammals when it comes to their reproductive system. Mammals produce sexual hormones all the time and, although they have 'cycles' (estrus and anestrus phases), they still have active organs working all the time. Birds do not. They evolved to breed only when their chances are maximized for success, and because they have environmental 'triggers' (daylight length, food availability and weather), each species has a specific time of the year when this happens. This results in 'long day' and 'short day' breeders which are determined by the point of refractoriness (number of daylight hours to which that specific species reacts to) but also to the availability of rich and abundant food (this is because, basically, they are all 'opportunistic' breeders).
Sun conures are long day breeders so they will start producing sexual hormones when the days are getting longer (spring) and stop when the days are getting shorter (fall). But, in between these two times which 'mark' the breeding season, we have the 'resting' season (we call it winter) when they do not produce any sexual hormones, their gonads (sexual organs) become inactive and shrink. When you keep a bird to a human light schedule (lights on before the sun is out and after it sets) and free-feed it protein food (pellets, seeds, nuts, nutriberries, etc), the bird will produce sexual hormones all the time, month after month, year after year, and their gonads will grow and grow until they start to push other internal organs out of the way causing, at the very least, acute discomfort and, in many cases, chronic pain - accompanied by a severe sexual frustration, of course, because the poor bird has no relief for its sexual drive. This is the reason why, usually, overly hormonal birds bite, scream, pluck and even self-mutilate. If you want to learn more about this, you can research avian photoperiodism, avian endocrine system and avian reproductive system.

Now, when a bird is overly hormonal, it would have constant aberrant behaviors like masturbating, regurgitating, nesting and, in the case of females, egglaying. As a note, lone females ONLY lay when they are overly hormonals - females that are kept attuned to the seasons (you can research circadian and circannual cycles) will never do this because, by the time they start getting frustrated, the season ends, hormonal production stops and their organs become inactive and shrink.

Now, for the endocrine system to become attuned to the seasons, you need to keep the bird at a strict solar schedule with full exposure to dawn and dusk (think of the way chickens and the birds out in the trees live) because it's the different light that happens before the sun comes out and when the sun is setting that turns on or off their 'internal clock'. Think of their photoreceptor cells (the ones that sense light and send signals to the brain and, in turn, to the glands - which, by the way, they not only have in their eyes as we, humans, and all other mammals do, but also have them deep in their brains -nature made it so their craneal bones are so thin that light can go through them!- because light, to birds, is almost like a nutrient and nature made it so that even when their eyes are closed in sleep, their bodies can still 'sense' if they are exposed to it or not -so cool, isnt' it?!) as a stop watch that gets turned on with the dawn light and off with the dusk light. The number of hours in between these two events is what tells their endocrine system if it's time to start or stop producing sexual hormones, to molt, to migrate, etc. BUT what most people don't realize is that the endocrine system does not only have to do with sexual hormone production, it also governs appetite, mood, sleep, cell regenerations and is even directly related to the functioning of the immune system so, when you mess up with it, you are messing up with much more than just the breeding season!

You also need to be very vigilant that no light reaches her at night so please make sure that, if this happens (TV, window, other rooms, etc), you are covering her entire cage with a black-out material -they sell curtains now that do this and I know because that's what I use as well as summer quilts in the bigger cages. There are studies that show that even birds that do not even live in a city but miles away are affected by the city lights so even though it might look like very little light to us, it makes a difference to the birds (I can tell you a story about cockatiels that started having night frights when I moved back to the city after living in the middle of a forest because of a sliver of light coming into a corner of their cage through a window).

That covers light - then we have food. Parrots cannot be free-fed protein food - this means filling up a bowl of seeds, nuts, pellets, etc in the morning and leaving it there all day long. There are two reasons for this: 1) as opportunistic breeders, high protein means excellent prospects for reproduction. And 2) it destroys their livers and kidneys. Some species are more affected than others... it all depends on their natural diet. Sun conures are most fruit eaters in the wild so they require low protein, especially during the winter (resting season). In reality, no parrot should be free-fed protein food because although one might read that seeds or nuts are part of a species natural diet, this is always seasonal. No plant fruits all year round and, when you talk about, say a palm with nuts, you are talking about not that many nuts in no that many trees for several flocks so no one bird gets nuts every day of their lives -which is, basically, what happens in captivity when you free-feed protein food. The other consideration is that they eat what it's called 'green' seeds which means seeds that are still in the fruit so the bird doesn't only have to eat the fruit first to get to the seed, the seed itself is not dry, which is what we give them in captivity.

I've been doing research on parrots natural diets since 1994 and have long ago reached the conclusion that pellets are not and never will be the best dietary option for them so, after a lot of study, thought and experimentation, I decided on gloop accompanied by raw produce (one fruit, one veggie and one leafy green or cruciferous - a different one each day of the week) for breakfast and all day picking and a small, measured amount of a seed or a seed/nut mix. Which mix I use depends on the species but, for a sun conure, I would use a budgie mix with two kinds of nuts (like one medium size almond and a quarter of walnut - or - half a pecan and a pistachio, for example) IF (and that is a big IF) the bird has been having a good diet for some time because a bird that has had a bad diet needs detox, liver and kidney cleansers and tonics and a lower protein for a while.

Now, there are no plants that can provide vit D3 (a vitamin by name only because, in reality, it's more like a hormone that allows the body to absorb calcium - without it, the bird can eat loads of calcium but it will be able to absorb any of it into its body) so you need to either expose the bird to direct (and that means no glass) sunlight, at the very least, 20 mintues a day every single day (which is not really doable with pet birds) so it can produce its own OR you supplement it. I supplement it twice a week all year round and give the laying hens extra during breeding season to replenish the calcium used up in eggs. Eggbinding occurs when the bird does not have enough calcium in its bones (birds can move calcium in and out of their bones) to produce a thick eggshell so the egg is formed with a thin, soft shell that the bird cannot push out. Pellets have both calcium and D3 in them BUT old canary breeders believe that if you supplement calcium and D3 every single day, the bird might lose the ability to move the calcium in and out of their bones resulting in eggbinding even when the bird has been supplemented (this is one reason why I don't like pellets but there are actually a lot of them - I can elaborate, if you wish). I don't know if this is true because I've never found a single scientific study proving it but I can tell you that I've know birds on pellets that have become eggbound and that, even though canary breeders might not know the reasons why things happened, the fact that these birds have been bred by humans since the 1400's and that breeders have been making notes and comparing them with other breders have given us a wealth of empirical knowledge covering millions of birds and hundreds of thousands of breeders. They were the first to figure out not only that breeding can be manipulated by artificially extending the day but also what the increases and the intervals need to be (15 minutes a week), to establish the exact number that makes them breed best (between 13.5 and 14 hours of light) as well as the number it takes for them to go into molting (15 hours). No mean feat considering how and when these things were discovered!

So, strict solar schedule with full exposure to dawn and dusk will keep the bird endocrine system attuned to the season and prevent it from becoming overly hormonal as well as a chronic or off-season layer. No free-feeding protein will not only keep the bird healthier but also prevent it from producing sexual hormones out of sheer 'opportunism' and supplements will provide the necessary calcium and D3 to prevent eggbinding.

Let me know if I was not clear enough or if I forgot to explain something.

[andyandy]

With my bird, I've had this toe problem two times, and I obviously did something wrong the first time, because my bird broke his leg very soon after that and havent't had any problems since.