Harrison's Bird food

[Nathaniel]

So therefore my vet was a crooked scumbag douche-canoe, which I deduced all by my little lowly self.

I took me 15 minuets to stop laughing at that. I can still barlly type.

[birdvet]

Also I don't think I'd trust a vet's advice about general diet (perhaps diet in response to a particular illness but not overall). I think breeders and other parrot owners are more in the loop of what foods prove healthy for parrots than vets who are more removed from this.

I agree that parrot breeders and owners are very knowledgable about diet etc but bear in mind that many avian veterinarians (myself included) are actually parrot owners and some are also bird breeders (I used to be) so we have a lot of general diet knowledge, not only about health related issues. I think Harrisons is recommended so much because Greg Harrison is one of the authors of the bible of Avian Medicine "Avian Medicine; Principles and Applications" as well as "Clinical Avian Medicine" books that are generally regarded very highly amongst us avian veterinarians. And yip, it is also a job so we do need to make a buck to earn a living but the majority of us are also bird nerds so we are trying to do the best for the feathered chaps as well, its not usually a malicious money making scam (of course, I'm certain such vet types do exist!!!).

But back to the actual issue: Recommendation of Harrisons Bird Food.

I personally use this brand and my birds have brilliant plumage and very nice droppings (bird vets get VERY excited about droppings...
But Roudybush and Zupreem are reputable brands which I have no hesitation in recommending. I think the best way to choose is to see which fits in to your budget and which food your birds prefer - let the feathery ones chose for you You can do a food trial if you're super keen which means feeding one brand for a long period of time (to include a moult) and assess the feather quality. You'll be able to judge which food made your birds feathers look awesome and can go from there...don't forget though, if you decide to do this, don't just change the food type overnight, must be gradual or you might get gastrointestinal complications...

Hope this helps...

PS, Michael, I think your birds are amazing!!! I especially love how Kili plays dead

[lzver]

I'm not going to disagree that Harrison's is most definitely one of the premium bird pellets on the market. I just had Jessie at a new avian vet a few weeks ago and they sell Harrison's and she mentioned it is a high quality organic pellet, but never pushed it on me. I was given a sample package of the fine and coarse Harrison's pellets a month or so ago when I booked the appointment and I did give it to them as treats to see if they would like it. One of the main reasons I will not switch to Harrison's is the size of the pellets. The fine is WAY too small ... Lucy and Jessie like holding pellets in their feet and eat in several bites. The coarse is WAY too big .... they were awkward for Lucy and Jessie to hold and I found they got wasted and I was throwing them away when I changed paper in their cages. I mentioned this to my vet and she says she gets that feedback a lot from parrot owners. Apparently this has been suggested to Harrison's, but they still haven't provided a medium size pellet. If they listen and offer a medium sized pellet, I might reconsider.

Over the course of the last 4 years, I have experimented with various different pellets. Right now I feed a combination of 2 pellets. I use about 75% Hagan Tropimix Low Fat Bean Mix and 25% Pretty Bird Gold. They really seem to enjoy the Pretty Bird pellets and I offer because it has Palm Oil in it. They also like the Low Fat Bean mix because it has a mix of little treats in it as well. At this point, I would say that pellets comprises about 40% of their diet. With both my husband and I working full time, I cannot leave fresh food in their cages all day, so they are offered pellets when we are not home. They are offered a mix of vegetables, fruit, grains, sprouted beans, etc for about an hour each morning. I provide before I leave for work and my husband removes the fresh food and provides the pellets. Then they are offered the same mix of fresh food when I get home from work.

I am a lot more knowledgeable now about the diet I provide for my birds and I do the best that I can. I find that a birds diet is a very personal decision (just like clipping wings) and every parrot owner has their own ideas. Jessie just got a clean bill of health at the vet a few weeks ago, so I'm not stressing out over which pellet food I offer.

[Rue]

birdvet: Thanks for the explanation. Works for me!

I'll continue with Zupreem...my Pionus and Amazon really do have nice feathers. the 'tiels looks great as well...and as I said, the CAG might, if she ever let them grow in...

[pfinarffle]

amen over how harrison's changed our senegal's feathers from a dull green to this amazingly luminescent greenish-yellow color. we actually started noticing his grey head feathers getting shiny pretty quickly. at first i was worried he was too oily or something. i'm guessing he's just gotten a lot healthier since he recovered from a yeast infection of his gi tract this winter. i don't think it's also a small coincidence that he was converted to a better pellet diet and sprouts in that period of recovery. i think nutrition makes a huge difference to our healths (both bird and owner-- ie rising rates of obesity etc). we're still far away from feeding our guy what he should be getting as he's vegetable-resistant. but it seems he likes dehydrated fruits/veggies, so we do what we can. the latest is watching his feet as there seem to have been some pressure spots that've developed since his activity increased post-illness. we changed to all natural/soft perches long ago, but the spots are still there. not wounds but pinkish areas where he is putting pressure while perching. i'd read vitamin A deficiency can cause this as their feet don't heal as quickly as they should from everyday wear. could a pelleted diet alone fix these types of nutritional deficiencies? it's scary as i know to much vitamin A is dangerous too and we frankly know so little about bird nutritional needs!

on a somewhat unreleated note, both our senegal and a friend's senegal got yeast infections over the past few years and both birds were fed one of those seed soak blends (you feed the seeds unsprouted but after soaked in water for a few hours). do you think it's a coincidence this happened or are soaked foods that are unsprouted a not-so good idea?

[lainmai]

Personally I wouldn't feed a soak mix if it is seeds - either feed them dry raw seed or sprouted.
I've started to offer my birds Roudybrush's Soak & Feed and while my Let's haven't jumped through hoops for it they do enjoy it on occasion, and Tobi had it tonight before bedtime and he seemed to enjoy it quite a bit. I've not personally seen soak & feed mixes of seeds that are meant to feed unless they have a few days of sprout growth on them. Dare I ask what brand you were feeding?

[pfinarffle]

Personally I wouldn't feed a soak mix if it is seeds - either feed them dry raw seed or sprouted.
I've started to offer my birds Roudybrush's Soak & Feed and while my Let's haven't jumped through hoops for it they do enjoy it on occasion, and Tobi had it tonight before bedtime and he seemed to enjoy it quite a bit. I've not personally seen soak & feed mixes of seeds that are meant to feed unless they have a few days of sprout growth on them. Dare I ask what brand you were feeding?

both myself and my friend were feeding Volkman seed and soak. that was the odd thing. we were feeding the exact same thing to two birds of the same species who developed yeast issues. but i also know that both her and my sennie are very picky eaters, and i suspect that both our birds had/still have nutritional deficiencies due to finicking eating in general. though i doubt that having something wet that's sitting around at room temp was also helping things at all.

[birdvet]

the CAG might, if she ever let them grow in...

Aaahhh...African Greys!!! They are such chronic feather pickers sometimes!!! I cringe if I get one of those guys in my consults, soooo hard to treat...sigh!!!

Pfinarrfle: Soaked seeds are always a risk I feel, I've seen fungus grow on them within hours...aflatoxicosis and aspergillosis might be the result which will likely not have a happy ending for the bird . The yeast issues are likely also related as these can grown on soaked seeds as well. Sprouted seeds are better.

As for raw feet and vitamin A deficiencies, yip, that sounds about right but diet is not the only fix for this. A good pelleted diet with 20-30% fresh fruit and veg seems ideal (but obviously, as mentioned, bird nutrition is in its infancy so more research is required), however, birds on this type of diet seem to do really well. The pelleted formulations should not result in vitamin A overdose, as long as you're using a reputable brand. You've already switched to natural and soft perches so that's good. With two amputees in my flock I have to pay particular attention to the development of pododermatitis in the remaining feet soI feel your pain and frustration . As long as the shiny spots don't get bigger or look very angry and red they should be fine. You could try moisturizer, something like sorbolene cream? We use this on penguins and seabirds in hospital as they tend to get bumblefoot really easily because they're so used to being in water most of their lives that they can't cope with extended periods on land. Sorbolene is safe to use on birds (I figured that might be the next question )

Hope this helps

[Kim S]

I believe carrots are stuffed with vit A.
I heard from a friend that people cook the seeds for an hour and then feed it to the birds. This would free al the nutricientsm without the risks of fungi forming. Dont know how much of that is true though.

I just sent a couple of mails to vendors (is that a corect word?) of roudybush, harrison and scenic, to get some samples. I really want Kika to have a healthy diet but the pellets he gets now make him regurgitate a lot. The problem seems to go away when on a seed and fresh food diet.
One of the top breeders in Holland feeds scenic pellets four days a week and seedmix 3 days a week. Sounds like a good plan to me!

[pfinarffle]

birdvet, thanks re: the sorbolene rec. it's true, if anything the reddish/pinkish areas on his feet are getting smaller over the weeks. but you can never be too careful with older birds. i'll try that stuff. his feet started out really soft and pink, we think due to inactivity secondary to the yeast infection. and ever since he started getting better after the illness his activity went sky high and i noticed the pressure points in the past couple months. it's not like our birds can tell us every little thing that ails them, so it's really up to us to be hypervigilant.

i've tried carrots, sweet potatoes, anything orange under the sun. he's just a super finicky eater. recently added dehydrated veggies to the mix (including sweet potatoes), and he seems to like them, so we'll see (for now)...

as mentioned in other threads, seed mixes are great to use in the evenings as training reinforcement. we've started this with our guy and he has shown quite a steep learning curve (esp in training us!). i find birds are very similar to most men: the fastest way into their hearts is through their stomaches.