Vet Visit & Grains in Diet

[Red Moppet]

Sputnik had his first vet visit today for a check up, gram (spelling??) stain and toenail clip.

But... the vet said that he needed to be eating way more pellets than he is (pellets should be 65% of his diet, 15% should be leafy greens and 20% seeds). I had been feeding him mixtures of brown rice or quinoa with broccoli, carrot, parsley and whatever other veggies I could find on a daily basis. That would be for dinner and then I'd put seeds in his cage for the evening, and pellets available all the time in his cage. She said that with all the food he's given, it's no wonder he doesn't touch the pellets. Vet says to cut out the grains completely due to hormones (the grains trigger hormonal reactions or something to that effect). Vet said that birds are like kids in that they will eat what they like, not necessarily what is good for them. Now I do trust the vet as she is purely an avian vet, but I was under the impression that grains are good for birds and it seemed to me that many books and websites say that they are good too.

I've been reading some older posts on this matter and it seems as though many of you folks believe in fresh foods and only a few of you stick to purely or almost purely pellets.

Have any of you had the "no grains" advice? What are your thoughts on this topic?

[Michael]

I support what the vet said. From most of the research I have done, I feel that the safest place to start is with a 100% quality pellet diet (Roudybush, Harrison's). Then you can start phasing in some fresh foods, vegetables, seeds, and nuts in moderation. Going the other way around is risky because if the parrot over feeds on the other stuff it won't be getting nutrition from pellets.

I used to do 50/50 pellets/other foods on Kili. After advice from several people to give more pellets, I've gone to something closer to 75/25 and I suspect she is doing better. She seems to prefer a higher pellet intake herself in fact. Every vet and parrot expert that has ever seen my parrots has always said they are at an ideal weight and nutritional balance.

[Red Moppet]

Thanks for your response, Michael. Luckily, my bird had been started on Harrison's by the breeder, so he recognizes it as food and will eat it. I'll just watch his poops over the next few days and see how it goes.

Sigh. It's now a couple of hours after when he'd normally get some dinner and more seeds and he seems hungry! He's got his head in his foraging cup where the last vestiges of millet have been left... God, I feel like a bad mother!!! Eat your pellets or you will go to bed hungry! I think this will be harder on me than it will be on him....

[JadeW]

Aw, he'll be okay! If pellets aren't his favourite thing to eat right now, he'll still eat them if he's hungry enough. I had a similar problem with Cas when I drastically increased the veg in his diet. Pellets and seed are still what he prefers to eat, but he will eat the veg when he gets hungry enough. Have patience, he'll eat it

[pchela]

I respectfully disagree with Michael. I am absolutely against a 100% or even majority pelleted diet. I think that is only ideal for people who won't take the time to feed a healthy diet. If you feed a well balanced, healthy diet your bird will be fine and thrive. Why take away healthy foods in order to replace them with synthetic pellets? This is only plausible for people who have their parrots on a seed only diet. I think that some vets either assume that everybody feeds majority seed so they make blanket pellet only recommendations or else they are getting money for pushing a certain brand of pellet.

[Michael]

I didn't suggest 100% pellet but said that it's a safer place to start. This is in the sense that even on 100% pellets, the parrot will be quite healthy. However, to try to do a 100% fresh foods diet and add pellets back into it, you risk malnourishing your parrot.

[pchela]

Sorry, Michael... I misread your post. I am just very leery of a manufacturer or a vet paid by the manufacturer that recommends entire pellet diets. If somebody doesn't have the time or the will (ie, people who feed seed diets) to provide a complete diet then I would say pellets are the way to go.

Curiously, if you are providing a good fresh diet, how do you risk malnourishment? I have been thinking about diet a lot lately because the Jardine's has special dietary needs and I have to figure out how to get him extra Vitamin A.

[Michael]

Well when you are experimenting with new fresh foods and stuff, the parrot might be picky and not eat everything you offer. Furthermore as a beginner you may not be knowledgeable about what is good or not. For instance I had made the mistake of feeding celery and lettuce to my parrot in the past not realizing that it dilutes the nutrition if anything.

Thus my point is that if someone needs a place to start, that it be 100% pellets. And then they can start introducing alternative foods and experimenting on their time. This way there is less likelihood that the parrot isn't getting something that it needs.

[pchela]

Okay, when you put it that way, I agree with you. Pellets would be a good place to start as you try to introduce new fresh foods in order to avoid missing nutrients.

I just don't think a 100% pellet diet is a good option for the life of the parrot.

I have not heard anything about grains causing hormones. I'll have to research that.

[Red Moppet]

It's an interesting debate, to say the least.

I thought I had been very careful in feeding him good, healthy food with limited seeds. She did say that he was a healthy weight and his blood work came back all good. So far he's not enjoying the pellets much and is ravenous by the time we do training - he inhales the millet and is often so eager to get a bite of millet that he rushes through the trick. So I don't know. I'm glad to hear from both sides of the debate though.

The vet also said to limit face-to-beak & shoulder time as that stimulates a mate-bond in the bird and she doesn't think that's healthy.

So many things to consider and so many sides to each concern!