URGENT! Please help with info

[Mona]

Also...I think this whole discussion elegantly enforces the argument that you need to know your vet BEFORE you have an emergency. Avians are delicate and fragile and the quality of vet care can really vary from one veterinarian office to another.

YOU REALLY WANT A GOOD, DEPENDABLE, TRUSTWORTHY AVIAN VET.

You need to know this BEFORE you have an emergency and the only way to do that is to develop a RELATIONSHIP with your vet.

Your bird isn't an inanimate object. It isn't like a car that you take in for a tuneup. It is a living, breathing, delicate being and if you are lucky, you will not need specialized avian care...but when you do, you really want the vet to be there, be competent and be available. You want a vet that will do more good than harm.

In areas where people don't take their birds to avian vets, you won't find avian vets. You may find dog or cat vets who say they are "avian vets" but believe me, they can do a lot more harm than good.

15 years ago, it was really hard to find a good avian vet. Mortality was pretty high and people were still learning a lot. We've come a long way since then and there are fantastic improvements....but we still have a LONG WAY to go. I think avian veterinarian is still a science in its infancy...

Thanks!

Mona

[thegreatkatsby]

I hate how even vets can look at an animal as below us. If this was a baby, then what? There would be hell to pay... why not the same respect for a bird? They are just as much as a living, breathing, thinking thing as a baby is.

I don't think the vet was looking down on the quaker; more likely he/she is just conditioned to seeing animals die in the course of treatment. One of the biggest reasons I chose not to become a vet was because you have to put down so many animals for many reasons: untreatable conditions, unwanted pets, dangerous animals, etc. At some point you have to be "the doctor" and perform with a degree of emotional detachment. I'm sure the vet feels really awful about this, and any expression of guilt was just that--feeling sorry that it happened, and realizing that, as the vet, it is his/her "fault" by default.

[Rrrma]

True. It is also the biggest reason I decided not to go into animal medicine.

I guess also some of my own personal feelings towards my most recent experience with a local vet came out there. I swear that office seemed to not give a !#@% about the animal itself, and only worried about where the money might come from. I'm still annoyed with them.

[Rue]

This isn't so much a black and white issue, as gray...

One would hope that a vet truly does like animals...

...yet, they are a business and have to make money - and part of that involves the unpleasant work of euthanizing healthy unwanted animals, etc....very sad.

At the same time, I do think vet care has gone overboard and become overly expensive - to the point where many people don't take their animals in when they should. I'm not talking about people who can't afford to have an animal to begin with...I'm talking of regular folk overcharged for often unnecessary procedures...

[el-parrot]

gosh.. what a horrible story!! I am very sorry to hear this. Will a necropsy be done to find out the reason the birdie died??

[birdvet]

we got the report from the vet. very hard to read because it is very scribbled. but she did bleed out. her air sac filled with blood and he tried cpr with no sucess.

No one will know if he or if his assistant handled the bird correctly or not because he took the bird to another room to preform the procedure. He admitted he could of caused the death. and after the fact said it is always risky.

doesn't the vet have an obligation (if nothing more to cover his butt) to let someone know that this coud be risky. I understand it was an accident but accidents still have someone liable. I know he didn't it on purpose.. but he still did it and freak or not, the bird died. '

if at my company we make a mistake, we still take responsibity and make the customer whole.

i cant agree that the vet can just blow this off as a opps, i guess i could of done this ... and oh if you want me to still get the blood tested the you wil have to pay for that?

this just does not sit well with me this was NOT nervous bird.. very calm and gentle

I doubt the vet was blowing it off, he's likely very upset over the whole incident as he knows he's responsible for the death of the bird, even though it was not his fault (if that makes sense?). There is always risk with medical procedures which leads me to say, yes, I think maybe he should have advised of the risks of the procedure because, although not common, there are cases (as mentioned perviously) of birds dying from the procedure. I still don't think he is obligated to pay anything towards the cost of the bird though.

Even calm birds can freak out in a different environment and when being restrained for a jugular blood sample. My birds are prime examples, I can do anything with them and they are very gentle, but if I restrain them to take blood all hell breaks loose.

I'm surprised they didn't provide a typed report? That would have been the more professional approach so you didn't have to interpret vet handwriting (which is generally non-readable in most countries ).

How is your friend doing? Such a tragic, horrible experience for her

A quick note on blood sampling from toenails: a contaminated blood sample is something to be concerned about. If there is even a teeny drop of urates contaminating the blood then that value will be elevated on the biochemistry panel and lead to a route of diagnosing kidney failure in a bird that is healthy. That's just one example...
I personally think it is mean as it is more painful for the bird and you never get enough blood. Jugular sampling is usually my last resort or reserved for birds under 30g and generally I anaesthetise them to reduce the stress and to reduce wriggling. Conscious jugular samples are easier on larger birds (usually cockatiel size and over). I usually use the medial metatarsal vein on the inside of the leg, its super easy, its clean, you get sufficient blood to run all the tests you require, the bird doesn't go home with a sore foot as a tiny little needle prick in the leg is pretty harmless (obviously if done by someone with experience - it is actually challenging getting blood from bird veins as the veins are so fragile and a lot smaller than what most small animal vets are used to dealing with, so this just re-emphasises the need to go to an experienced avian vet). The ulna vein in the wing is my next choice if the legs are too cold and the blood isn't flowing (this happens lots, especially in NZ ). The ulna vein is more fragile and tends to blow more easily though so more skill required.
You'll find many avian veterinarians are moving away from using toenail clips to collect blood samples. Avian medicine is a reasonably new field, but not that new, at least 20 years old now and we have a lot of knowledge and do lots of cool things that are comparable to what small animal veterinarians can do. Diagnostics are improving all the time, as are diagnostic sampling methods...anywho, I could blah about this topic for hours so I'll stop

But yes, I agree with Mona - find a good avian vet BEFORE you have an emergency. Not that this little bird in the discussion was brought to the vet for an emergency, however, the vets might not have been that experienced with birds? The association of avian veterinarians webpage (aav.org) has a listing of avian veterinarians so I'd recommend hoping onto that site to search your area and find yourselves a bird vet that is nearby if you don't already have one . The AAV also has links to the Australasian group of Avian Vets (AAVAC) as well as the European group.

Right, enough from me, I'm sure you're all sick of reading this by now . I'm going to go and sleep off some jetlag!! Boston is a pretty cool city!!

[Artistic Feathers]

we got the report from the vet. very hard to read because it is very scribbled. but she did bleed out. her air sac filled with blood and he tried cpr with no sucess.

Conscious jugular samples are easier on larger birds (usually cockatiel size and over).

The association of avian veterinarians webpage (aav.org) has a listing of avian veterinarians so I'd recommend hoping onto that site to search your area and find yourselves a bird vet that is nearby if you don't already have one . The AAV also has links to the Australasian group of Avian Vets (AAVAC) as well as the European group.

Tango was my bird...

This vet advertised he was an Avian Specialist.
I looked him up on AAV; he isn't on there. I couldn't find too much info on him either except that he was a DMV. When I called the vet office to see if anyone there was avian certified they put me on hold for a long time after saying " Yes, we see avians," to find out if anyone was certified. Aren't they supposed to know this right off the bat? The person on the other end of the phone returned and said "If you are looking for a Diplomat you won't find one here, and no we are not avian certified." I understand you don't need an avian certification to see birds but you have to at least studied them correct?

A necropsy was done; ultimately the bird died due to the vet's procedure. I was not informed that this could very "easily" KILL the bird or at all for that matter...

So I had her cremated, she was a dear dear soul. Very sweet Very caring for such a young avian. Tattoo was holding her at the office, had a tear roll out of her eye and Tango licked it. Tango also hid under her shirt for about an hour or two cuddling afterwards.

I can't believe this happened. I had confidence in this vet. I never knew to research the vet = lesson learned the super hard way. I mean if you take your animal somewhere and say you are one thing that is what you should be right? I know now I should have researched him more and not just go off the press releases about this animal hospital which is pretty well known and that particular doctor. Wouldn't it be considered false advertisement to say you are one thing but truly are not?!?

Ps I had her cremated. I called in tuesday night to see if her remains were there to pick her up. Someone answered the phone and said,"She just had her first checkup?" I was like, "Yea and she died," after a long pause from the other end of the phone. So I asked if she could check to see if the remains were there. 10 min later after being on hold. "I don't see them, maybe they haven't dropped off yet." Meanwhile the crematory is closed so there is no way to find out one way or the other if the remains were delivered. Very upset at this, I ended the call and told my mother. ((My mom and I are very close, it's weird we are almost like sisters)) And she said that is such a crock. So she called the vet. And they found the remains not two minutes later?!?!?!??!?!!??!

Also, I agree it would be more professional to type it out. And with that place, and it's reputation, you think they would!! Right?! ...Wrong... Also, trying to get ahold of the doctor to explain it is a pain because no one there really wants to talk to me about it; they get all defensive. I have a right to know what they say and I do not believe that a vet should act this way...

Anyway I am very upset still; I will notify the owner of the business.

[birdvet]

Hey

I feel so bad for you, sounds like you've had an awful awful experience. Very sorry about the death of your little bird, that is so tragic

Not many people know they should look for bird vets or bird specialists so don't feel too bad about it. I know you've now experienced first hand the tragic loss of a beloved friend though.

DVM is the vet degree qualification in the USA and Canada. Specialists will have the letter dACVM (avian medicine) or something similar.

It sounds like the clinic are being very unprofessional and giving you the major run around. I can't believe it didn't come up on the records that your bird had died...that is a BIG no no not entering that data. It is very unprofessional. I'm glad you're going to talk to the owner of the practice, maybe you can prevent this horrible occurence happening again to someone else.

As for the vets not being members of the AAV, well, not all avian vets are members (remember, you don't have to be a specialist with the extra letters to be an avian vet, experience is just as good as the extra qualification) however, it is my firm belief that vets who are remotely interested in avian medicine and wish to learn more and improve themselves are members of this association...so, take from that what you will....

I hope you manage to find a decent avian vet nearby that you can go to in the future.

And again, so sorry for your loss!