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Ruperts bad night and rush to the Emergency Vet

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Re: Ruperts bad night and rush to the Emergency Vet

Postby lzver » Wed Oct 13, 2010 6:49 am

So sorry to hear about Rupert's ordeal. I'm glad you were able to act quickly and at least get him to a vet, even if it wasn't an avian vet. Let us know how he's doing this morning.

Situations like this is why I'm reluctant to let Lucy and Jessie out together. Lucy likes flying over to Jessie's cage and he always goes after her feet. I'm certain its just a territorial aggression, but now I cover the top of Jessie's cage whenever Lucy is out, so he can't go after her feet. The cute thing now is Lucy peeks down from the top of Jessie's cage and they both played peekaboo together the other night. Whenever Lucy would peer over and Jessie could see her, he said peekaboo.

I'm certain in neutral territory with very close supervision they would be fine, but I want to avoid an emergency situation.
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Re: Ruperts bad night and rush to the Emergency Vet

Postby Mona » Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:11 pm

Hi guys;

I'm so sorry to hear about Rupert. I'm sure he will mend fine. One thing you might think about is giving him some warm, mushy food like oatmeal or mashed potatos. If he isn't eating, you might want to "handfeed" him a few days just to make sure he keeps his weight up.

Just FYI.....My rule is to never leave one bird caged while the others are out. Either they are all out of their cages or they are all in their cages when they are in the same room together and playing. (Especially if I can't keep 100% focused attention on them) For some reason, it's just too tempting to pick on a caged bird. This is another reason why I don't have clipped birds. My flighted birds would pick on a clipped bird and it would have no defense.

Also, I think the weather is turning.....more rain....and that leads to nesting tendencies and possibly more aggressive tendencies. Babylon, my senegal hen, is my barometer. When she is good, she is very, very good but when she is bad (and something sets her off) she is horrid. This morning, she was pretty edgy.

You really can't blame yourself because they are after all, birds. Flock dynamics is something that is really difficult to predict or get a 100% handle on. I personally believe that having an environment that allows for flock dynamics is enriching and just increases their quality of life; however, like any thing that is enriching....there are always risks. Some risks you can mitigate but you can't mitigate them all.

Having said all of that, there are certain times of the year (when the rains come and spring depending on species) when you can predict you are going to have edgier behavior......so, it might be a good time to be more careful and/or keep a close eye on the birds - or just keep them caged and separated.....I'm not blaming you because it is easier said than done and I have to admit, it's a tough challenge for ANYBODY WITH MULTIPLE BIRDS. It really is a daily challenge and I know that I don't always get it right but the only way parrots learn about flock dynamics is to spend free time in a flock situation. If they are deprived of the opportunity to interact with other birds, they can become asocial and in some ways, I think a little stunted......They will become MORE aggressive, fearful and shy towards other birds rather than less aggressive.

I do hear a lot of stories from people who have Senegals that cannot be out together at the same time....or they immediately attack other birds and/or people. I do think that part of the reason is because these birds never learned how to interact and be part of a flock. In a flock, you will have isolated incidence of aggression (because that's the nature of these birds) but for the most part, they will know how to interact and even if they interact from a distance, they are still learning how to read and be with other birds. I'm of the opinion that isolating them does more harm than good....so, I'd rather work to understand and mitigate the risk (if I can).....in the long run, you end up with a better adjusted, less neurotic, more confident and playful pet. They will also be much better at handling change and accepting other people.

An isolated incident of aggression is usually, one bird chasing or beak sparring - and then they fly away and find something else to do. Most of the time, no harm no fowl....however, sometimes a bird DOES get seriously hurt - especially if they are not evenly matched in temperament and size. So....all of us have to be careful no matter what.

Overly aggressive birds may be something that is the breeder's fault too. Some birds (like Poi's) may need to be raised in clutches as babies rather than isolated from other birds to learn important and proper social skills.

No easy answers....just don't blame yourself

Thanks

Mona
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Re: Ruperts bad night and rush to the Emergency Vet

Postby pchela » Wed Oct 13, 2010 12:36 pm

So sad. He is clearly hungry and he keeps getting something out of his food dish and he'll try to eat it but he's crying while he does it and then he drops whatever he has because it hurts and tries to eat something else. I feel so bad. :( I'm going to make him some oatmeal and if he won't take that I'll run to the store and get him some formula. I gave him his pain meds so maybe he'll be able to eat in a while.

Thanks for your input Mona. I didn't think about the weather changes being a factor but it certainly could be. As I said, Nicholas has never gone after the other birds before though I do know that anything can happen. I'm usually so good about keeping an eye on them. If only one is out, it generally means that one is getting one on one time with me. I know accidents happen but it's difficult not to be self blaming when it was such a stupid mistake that could have been so easily avoided.

I usually let them all out at the same time and just recently (in the last week) I've been letting the Jardine's and the Senegal out separately. This is because Pippin (senegal) finally got his flight feathers in and now spends most of his time chasing and terrorizing Rupert. He just picks on him relentlessly. If you don't mind my asking for advice, what would you do in this situation? I've thought about reclipping Pippins wings so he can't be such a threat but he really loves flying and the other two are flighted. I don't want to have to let them out separately because they are generally all out when I'm home and we're used to that routine. Also, as I learned last night, I can't leave one caged if the others are out unless I can keep the other two with me at all times. This takes away their ability to graze, get water, play with their toys or even go into their cages for a nap if they want to. Rupert always flies away from conflict which he couldn't do last night because he was trapped. Maybe it's better to let them all out as usual and simply allow Pippin to be Pippin and a bully as long as Rupert has the freedom to fly away. I just don't want him constantly bullied in his own house. Any advice in this situation would be much appreciated!
Thanks for being here guys!

Birdvet- I'm sorry to hear about Johnny. Poor little guy. I hope he recovers soon as well!
"I bet the sparrow looks at the parrot and thinks, yes, you can talk, but LISTEN TO YOURSELF!" ~ Jack Handy ~ Deep Thoughts
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Re: Ruperts bad night and rush to the Emergency Vet

Postby pchela » Wed Oct 13, 2010 1:39 pm

Question for Michael or Birdvet.

Did the metacam make Truman drool? Rupert has some pinkish strings of drool going on since I gave him his meds. Same thing happened last night but I thought it was just leftover blood from the wound.
"I bet the sparrow looks at the parrot and thinks, yes, you can talk, but LISTEN TO YOURSELF!" ~ Jack Handy ~ Deep Thoughts
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Re: Ruperts bad night and rush to the Emergency Vet

Postby Michael » Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:00 pm

No, nothing like that when Truman had it.

I think you should get hand feeding formula and have it on the ready. I doubt that bird will be eating on its own soon enough. Are you equipped/qualified to gavage feed if necessary? Are you keeping track of weight?

As for teaching them to get along, you can check out some of my articles:

http://trainedparrot.com/index.php?bid= ... t+Training

http://trainedparrot.com/index.php?bid= ... +Conflicts

http://trainedparrot.com/index.php?bid= ... d+Together

I'm not saying this issue is 100% solved, but I'm getting to a point where they are slightly more tolerant of each other. It actually got worse again for a while after Truman's injury when he was less equipped to stand up to her but now he's starting to get his confidence back. At least he fights back some of the time so Kili isn't getting too rewarded. It's important not to let her ego fly or she thinks she's invincible.
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Re: Ruperts bad night and rush to the Emergency Vet

Postby entrancedbymyGCC » Wed Oct 13, 2010 2:55 pm

Please don't blame yourself!!!! It is impossible to be 100% vigilant. I have caught myself more than once doing something that could have gone wrong... hindsight is always 20/20 and things do happen. As far as I can tell, you do EVERYTHING right, so give yourself a break!
pchela wrote:I am going to do some research


If you have any good bird stores or local breeders, they might be the best bet. My cat and dog vet had no idea -- she's GREAT with cats, but not really tuned in to birds at all! But I've picked up a lot of recommendations and business cards at bird stores.

I do have one option for nights and weekends -- the drive in traffic would be prohibitive for a real emergency during a workday, could be 3-4 hours -- and I have a stack of avian-treating vet business cards so if I'm in dire straights I can start dialing...

The horse vets here do what human doctors do and set up a 24/7 on call system taking turns at covering for the other equine vets. Wonder why avian vets don't do the same?

As for the drooling, I can imagine the tongue injury causing that -- Birdvet?

Is he at least able to drink comfortably? If not, I think I'd be worried that getting fluids into him may be way more critical than getting food into him. .. FWIW.
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Re: Ruperts bad night and rush to the Emergency Vet

Postby pchela » Wed Oct 13, 2010 4:36 pm

Thanks for the support guys. It is really appreciated!

I ran some errands and picked up some formula and some sheets of plexiglass which are going to now live on top of the cages (just in case).

He is clearly very hungry and I did manage to get 15 cc's down him so at least he's got something in him now. I am not qualified to gavage feed but he took the formula okay so hopefully it won't come to that. He did not really want to be fed by a syringe but I'm hoping that as he gets hungrier he'll be more willing. I have not seen him drinking yet but the formula has a lot of water in it. My worry is the medication. Birdvet said to make sure it's taken with lots of liquid. Maybe I can put it in the syringe with some formula. Also keeping track of his weight of course.

I imagine the drooling is absolutely because of the tongue wound.

Thanks for the idea about the pet stores Entranced. It's a good idea, don't know why I haven't thought to call them before. I could also call my regular vet and see who he recommends. It turns out that there is an Emergency Animal Center much closer to my house than the one we went to and they say they can work with exotics. I'm going to check around and see how their reputation is.
"I bet the sparrow looks at the parrot and thinks, yes, you can talk, but LISTEN TO YOURSELF!" ~ Jack Handy ~ Deep Thoughts
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Re: Ruperts bad night and rush to the Emergency Vet

Postby Red Moppet » Wed Oct 13, 2010 5:55 pm

I'm so sorry about Rupurt pchela! :cry: Poor little guy. I hope he's feeling better soon. And what a scary experience for you too! Hope all goes back to normal in no time!
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Re: Ruperts bad night and rush to the Emergency Vet

Postby Mr.Darcy » Wed Oct 13, 2010 8:37 pm

Poor little chicken! Mouths do heal very fast so hopefully by now he is feeling better. Remember that we usually under medicate for pain whether its for ourselves or our kids etc. If he seems in pain use the meds dont make him suffer ;)
I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel.
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Re: Ruperts bad night and rush to the Emergency Vet

Postby birdvet » Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:13 am

Yip, drooling most likely due to injury as that is not a side effect I've ever seen from a bird on metacam. Poor little dude. I agree with Michael, have some hand rearing formula on hand as it sounds like he isn't able to eat enough. It might be worth having a follow up visit with your regular avian vet just to check out there isn't more damage to the tongue and or/mouth/choana than initially observed.

And Johnny is much better now, thanks :D
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