Polyuria

[Shani]

I brought Barney home the day before yesterday, and for the most part he's doing well, except from yesterday morning till today he's had polyuria and I'm getting somewhat concerned.

He's been eating well - his main diet at the moment is seed and pellets (3/4 same seed and pellets as the breeder was using,1/4 my own to slowly switch him over), with a mix of veggies being offered (and happily consumed) in the morning and evening. The veggies I gave him yesterday were a mix of spinach, broccoli, cauliflower and carrot - nothing that really has an excessive water content.

Apart from that he's been acting what I presume to be normal since I've only had him for a couple of days. He's active, playful, pretty vocal etc. He isn't fluffed up or listless, and his feet are warm. I'm pretty sure his weight is steady as well, but I need to get a more accurate scale.

So yeah, the only problem he seems to have is this polyuria. It's pretty frequent, but it definitely isn't diarrhea - his vent is clear, and there's a clearly defined uh... poop part. Just too much clear fluid, and too frequent pooping. I'm worried. I know he's losing quite a bit of liquid, but at least he's drinking pretty frequently (is is the frequent drinking causing the polyuria?).

Finding an avian vet on a Sunday is going to be an absolute pain so I'm going to keep an eye on him for today, but unless it's gone by tomorrow I"m going to take him to ease my paranoia. In the mean time though - I've read that polyuria generally isn't too serious provided it only lasts a day or two - is this accurate? Have any of you guys experienced this with your birds (tiels in particular)? Anything I should be doing/signs I should be watching for?

[entrancedbymyGCC]

Have you asked the breeder what's normal for him? I know Scooter's frequency and wateriness is way, way, WAY more than Scotty's. Some of this is his diet-- he eats more fruit and veggies than Scotty. If Barney is acting fine and drinking, it may not be a big deal... I have heard that polyuria is rarely a problem in and of itself... but if you can talk to the breeder, maybe that would offer some reassurance?

[Shani]

Yep, I have. She pretty much said something along the lines of 'wait and see'. She said the possible causes could be increased thirst due to worming, him eating too many greens, stress from moving, etc. She seemed a little concerned though, and said "If it lasts a few days then will start to think of the next option". In other words, it isn't normal for Barney to have it, and it's a new development since I brought him home.

I have heard that polyuria is rarely a problem in and of itself

That's quite reassuring, thanks Entranced

[captwest]

Just a thought, do you have chlorinated water? maybe you upset her system , wiped out some good bacteria, when you brought her home, If so things should return to normal pretty soon, just a thought, birds changing locations exposes them to different germs, simular to us traveling to other countries a have issues if you know what i mean.

[Shani]

We have pretty 'meh' pipes here, so have a water filtration thingy. I've been giving him water from that instead of tap water. Maybe the fact I'm using purified water could have a similar effect? Afaik our water isn't chlorinated, but we do have fluoridated water and I don't think the filter removes that (or does it? Damn it I should know this).

I'm getting some conflicting advice about what to do next. The breeder seems concerned that he still has polyuria, and suggested that I get some over the counter low strength antibiotics to put in his water for a few days, and to hold off on fruits/veggies for a bit due to the high water content of those foods (and added calcium apparently decreases the effectiveness of the antibiotic). Her theory is that because he decided to sleep near his water bowl and pooped in it (during the night when I was asleep, I keep a good eye on his water during the day), that he may have drank some of the pooped in water and it's caused a mild bacterial upset.

She also said if it hadn't gone within a few days to take him to the vet, but believes that while his weight is steady/climbing it is probably worth trying a less traumatic method of treatment for now. It sounds reasonable, but I had a bit of a look on the net about the antibiotics she mentioned (I was actually looking for a good place to buy them), and everything says something along the lines of "Don't self medicate your bird, you will create a super strong strain of bacteria and/or do more harm than good and/or delay getting your bird to the vet which could result in that bird's death!" etc.

I'm inclined to believe the breeder - she isn't a vet, but has an honors degree in animal science, and is an associate lecturer in animal health (not to mention how fantastic she's been throughout the last couple of months since I put a deposit down for Barney), but as I said, she isn't a vet. Barney's weight *is* holding steady though. He's actually gained a gram since I brought him home which is just fantastic, considering he's in the process of adjusting to a new home (he was 97.2g on Friday, 98 grams this afternoon). The main site I found advocating against the antibiotics was this http://www.birdsnways.com/wisdom/ww27eii.htm. There were a few others, but this was the one that was the most uh... zealous, about it.

[captwest]

I'd be careful about the antibiotics, i'm not a vet, but would worry about upsetting the balance of baterias in her system, don't know about cutting out the fruit to limit fluid intake either, as far as poop in the water, it's hers and and shouldn't be strange bacteria unless it's left to sit and grow strange strains, i'd think she needs plenty of fliuds at this time and a vet visit in the near future. BUT i'm not a vet. Maybe some Yogurt with active culture would be helpful in restoring internal balance, my birds love it. keep us posted, Richard

[captwest]

After thinking about your situation a few more thoughts, Pedialyte ( in the baby food section) i've used it with babies having digestive issues with great success, it comes in different flavors also, the food/feed your using , could it be old/spoiled? Once again I'm not a vet, and vote that you should see one in the near future if things don't improve

[Shani]

I'd be careful about the antibiotics, i'm not a vet, but would worry about upsetting the balance of baterias in her system, don't know about cutting out the fruit to limit fluid intake either, as far as poop in the water, it's hers and and shouldn't be strange bacteria unless it's left to sit and grow strange strains, i'd think she needs plenty of fliuds at this time and a vet visit in the near future. BUT i'm not a vet. Maybe some Yogurt with active culture would be helpful in restoring internal balance, my birds love it. keep us posted, Richard

Yeah, I think I'll give the local avian vet a call first thing tomorrow morning and see what he says about those over the counter antibiotics. As for fluid, Barney has been drinking quite a bit since I've had him. Apparently it can be a behavioural thing, from what I've read? That's another possible cause of course, but is he drinking more because of the polyuria, or is the polyuria caused by him drinking? He hasn't wanted to touch much in the way of fruit, but has been all over spinach, broccoli, carrots, corn and cauliflower. Honestly, if I didn't manage his intake of said veggies that's all he would eat.

After thinking about your situation a few more thoughts, Pedialyte ( in the baby food section) i've used it with babies having digestive issues with great success, it comes in different flavors also, the food/feed your using , could it be old/spoiled? Once again I'm not a vet, and vote that you should see one in the near future if things don't improve

The food I'm using isn't spoiled. Definitely not. The samples I got from the breeder she took out of a new box of seed/pellets and put them in zip lock bags, same goes for what I've bought myself It has that 'new seed' smell to it. As for veggies, I've been preparing them in the morning, and evening - and only leave them in Barney's cage for 2 - 3 hours. That's not long enough to develop bacteria is it? i'll look into the pedialyte, thanks for the idea.

All that said and done - I'm going to contact a vet first thing tomorrow and get their opinion. I've been intending to get Barney checked out in the next week or two anyway, but I just can't muck around with self medicating and what not unless I have the blessing from a vet. If it turned out to be something that was made worse by antibiotics, or if the lack of veggies made him dehydrated or he didn't eat enough and lost weight. Nah, it's vet time. Unless the polyuria's gone tomorrow he's going to the vet to get a full work up.

Thanks very much Captwest, you helped me to see sense on this one.

[captwest]

Glad i could help, not sure how much, but at least you have a path and a purpose, hope i've eased some of your concerns, good luck Richard PS jake says i've spent enough time on that dad burn puter, her turn(LOL(

[Shani]

Haha, I'm getting to know that feeling very quickly Thanks again Captwest, really appreciate the advice. I'll update this thread tomorrow once I have any news.