Polyuria

[birdvet]

I didn't have time to read all the previous posts so apologies if I repeat anything. Poly uria can be a sign of serious disease so don't take it lightly. Common causes = stress from moving or being in a new environment, however this usually resolves in 1 day. Most of my parrot patients have stress polyuria during the consult. High water content (including lots of fresh fruit and veg in the diet) can also result in polyuria however this is usually less common. Renal failure, liver failure and heavy metal toxicity are common causes as well. Many diseases will cause polyuria so I'd definitely recommend a vet visit, especially seeing as this is a new bird. Sometimes all it takes is a move to a new environment to bring out some hidden disease...hence quarantining birds before introducing them to other birds.

Let us know how you go.

[Shani]

Got an appointment with a vet at 5:15pm this afternoon (so in a couple of hours from typing this). Sadly, the local avian vet has moved to a different practice, so the next certified avian vet is about 2.5 hours away.

On the plus side, I found a local vet who has a masters degree in small animal medicine and years worth of experience for birds. While she probably won't be able to give specialized treatment, she can at least give an accurate diagnosis and basic treatment, and give a good referral if I need to see a more specialized bird vet about this.

Speaking of which, thanks a ton for stopping by Birdvet, your opinion is very much appreciated. It is unsettling to think it could be something so serious, but here's hoping it isn't (and if it is it's caught before he gets any worse symptoms).

[Shani]

Ok, so I'm back with results from the vet. Barney has a bacterial infection, and has been given a 10 day dose of antibiotics. The vet also gave me swabs to test his urine, since both diabetes and kidney failure could be a possibility (though unlikely in a bird as young as Barney, and if he has either it's probably a congenital condition he's had since birth). The vet also said that he probably only started showing symptoms due to the stress of a new home, new cage etc.

I've been in regular correspondence with Barney's breeder throughout this fiasco, and she discovered this morning that one of Barney's younger siblings in the nest, and one of the cockatiels she is handraising inside both had higher than normal counts of bacteria, and suggested that this may be the cause of the polyuria. Coincidence? I think not (I found the email when I got home, she was unaware of what the vet told me about Barney).

So - at the moment I'm hoping it's just an infection. He had his first dose of the antibiotic at the vet's, and since he's been home all his poops have been normal so I can't test his urine. Testing a bird's urine when they don't have polyuria is near impossible, there just isn't enough that isn't contaminated with fecal matter, and the fecal matter can give false positives on these tests. I don't know if antibiotics can work within a couple of hours or not, but fingers crossed.

If anything, this experience just demonstrates how important it is for prompt medical treatment if your bird has any health issues, no matter how minor they may seem. The only physical symptom Barney had was the polyuria, and he has a pretty severe bacterial infection. A nice bonus - it was only $70 for the consult + fecal test the vet performed on the spot + 10 days worth of antibiotics and the urine testing stuff.

[captwest]

Keep us posted

[Shani]

Good news all round - the protein test came back negative. The glucose test was slightly positive, but the vet is 99% sure that too is negative, because with birds, if it's positive it normally goes to the darkest colour, and with barney it was only slightly positive (likely due to a bit of fecal contamination). The plan is to continue the antibiotics, and monitor his urine/water output and see how he goes over the next few days.

He was quite butthurt when I gave him the antibiotics this morning, and I was really worried I screwed it up - the dropper was really sensitive and I squirted it in too quickly, poor little guy. I'm monitoring him closely for any signs of respiratory distress, but there isn't any. I put him back to a nice meal of veggies and he's digging in like there's no tomorrow, so all good hopefully. I had a few things I needed to do today, but I'm just putting them off for a few hours to watch him and make sure he's fine, with the vet's number nearby just in case he starts wheezing or something

[captwest]

Barney is very lucky to have such a good bird mom!!!! you're doin a great job,,

[Shani]

Barney is very lucky to have such a good bird mom!!!! you're doin a great job,,

Thank you very much, I'm trying, and it means a lot to hear that <3

Second dose of antibiotics this evening - went a lot more smoothly. He's gaining weight as well again which is great. Not really much else to update on, just need to keep up the antibiotics, and hopefully the next vet appointment he has, he gets a clean bill of health.

Off topic - any better way for removing sunflower seeds than picking out each individual one? I don't really want to offer him sunflower seeds with his usual seed mix (want to save them for treats), and I swear I spent a good couple of hours just picking them out today. Barney didn't help much. He ended up in the seed bowl I had to make it easier to pick them out (why oh why did I think having him out at the same time was a good idea), had lots of fun walking around in in the bowl flinging seed everywhere, then proceeded to poop on my keyboard, squawk happily then began preening himself on my hand. He was so proud of the mess he caused.

[Jenny]

He ended up in the seed bowl I had to make it easier to pick them out (why oh why did I think having him out at the same time was a good idea), had lots of fun walking around in in the bowl flinging seed everywhere, then proceeded to poop on my keyboard, squawk happily then began preening himself on my hand. He was so proud of the mess he caused.

Aaron had polyuria due to a bacterial infection when I first got him. A round of antibiotics cleared it up. Here's a major for spotting Barney's condition & addressing it so promptly!!

[entrancedbymyGCC]

My understanding is that polyuria, as distinct from diarrhea, is simply outputting more urine than normal. It can happen because there is more water being taken in or because something has caused the kidneys to go into overdrive, and the only risk from the polyuria itself is dehydration (the pedialyte is a great idea, I've seen it suggested for birds before, and in small doses I doubt it would hurt). I don't see how an antibiotic would do any good.... if it were diarrhea, that might have a bacterial trigger, but if this is bacterial, I think it would have to be a kidney infection or something affecting the endocrine system. I woudn't personally mess around with that without a vet input. If the increased urination is from increased drinking, it could be a sign of diabetes. Perhaps the breeder is thinking it is diarrhea rather than polyuria (I am not sure I would trust myself to be 100% sure I'd recognize the difference), but most vets will quite emphatically say not to self-medicate. Since an exam was in the plan anyway, I think engaging the vet is the best course.

Here is the avianweb article on polyuria: http://www.avianweb.com/polyuria.html
Here is another article:http://www.petplace.com/birds/polyuria-in-birds/page2.aspx

One thing I note is that too much salt in the diet seems to be a fairly common cause.

[Shani]

Umm Entranced, I'm not too sure what you're getting at, sorry, because, well... I took Barney to the vet on Monday, and the vet diagnosed him with a bacterial infection after testing his droppings and prescribed him antibiotics (I'm thinking you may have missed the 2nd page of this thread ). His urine has also been tested for glucose and protein levels as I said before and come back negative for both (thus ruling out both kidney failure and diabetes). The antibiotics Barney's on are vet prescribed, and I never treated him with over the counter medication myself. I took him to the vet instead due to my concern over his health.

As for Barney's breeder - she has the facilities at the university she works at to test her bird's poop and they had higher than normal counts of bacteria as well, which is why she's putting them on antibiotics too (prescribed antibiotics, not the over the counter stuff). No speculation, this is all vet approved actions that have been taken (by both of us).

It's also 100% polyuria - the loose part of the dropping is clear, and there's a clearly defined 'poop' bit. Barney's vent is also clear (with diarrhea his vent would be stained). So yeah, I hope that helps to clear things up for you Not sure if it was just a straightforward infection in his gut, or his kidneys, but the antibiotics seem to be working well. He'll get another vet exam after he's finished the course to make sure he's healthy.

Aaron had polyuria due to a bacterial infection when I first got him. A round of antibiotics cleared it up. Here's a major for spotting Barney's condition & addressing it so promptly!!

Thanks Jenny! I'm sad to hear that Aaron had the same thing as Barney, but I'm glad it was so easily treatable.