Free feeding or controlled feeding?

[Kathleen]

Do you free feed your birds or do you control their diets? What effect does this have on your training?

[Natacha]

My birds always have food available so I guess that means I free feed them.

They have pellets available at all times and a small amount of seeds per day. I don't feel bad giving them seeds since they have plenty of excercice out of their cages and they have a quite diversified diet. They get the "greens" (mix of veggies and some fruit) and some sprouts when we have dinner or they sometimes get part of my dinner.
I do hide treats in their cages (i.e. nuts (such as almonds), nutriberries and pieces of dried fruit) and they must forage to find these goodies (work for food).

I don't spend a lot of time training them I must admit. When I do want them to do something though, I'll use the same goodies I hide for them to find in their cages, but I usually use smaller pieces.

[Michael]

So how do you maintain tameness/authority over your birds? Do you have routines and reinforcing activities?

I believe that training is essential for house parrots. The tricks are optional but nice. But you can still train a parrot without having formal tricks no matter what they say. However, it seems difficult to me to have flighted parrots if they aren't recall trained and any parrot if it isn't trained to step up.

What I really don't understand though is people who don't train/tame their birds at all and just feed them and let them do whatever they want. Why not just let them do whatever they want back in the wild then? There's no interaction in the household then. If on the other hand they are brought up to be trained and tamed, they enjoy it and fit right into the household.

[Natacha]

I'm sorry but my parrots ARE tame.
I don't think I should deny my birds some food just to be able to train them with it.

Step up? I have shown the step up command and they know what it means. Have I rewarded them stepping up with food? No. They got verbal praise. How do I reinforce it? I keep doing it. I don't give them a choice if I require them to step up.

I have successfully trained Shade to not bite. She doesn't bite anyone, even people she likes less. Did it have anything to do with food? No. Positive reinforcement with verbal praise. Same with Piper and I'm doing great on the same level with Joey and Zuri. With Petey, I believe we need to work on our trust first. Trust me, I've tried trying to reward her with treats she wouldn't otherwise get and it did not work. You must first build trust. And in her case, it's to show her that not all women are bad and I think I'm achieving that more with letting her get to know me and see how I interact with others and slowly getting closer to her. With ANY training you must first get a certain level of trust and we aren't there yet.

Oh and I do notbelieve in training by always having a food reward. I don't want my birds to expect receiving said treat all the time. I do use food rewards for small tricks that don't really affect how they behave though, things I wouldn't expect them to do regardless of there being food at the end. I do believe they should have access to a basic diet at all times. The extras, they need to work for, in case you would have missed the blurb about foraging.

Let them do whatever they want here? Yes to some extent. I have parks set up for them to play in and enjoy. It keeps them busy, it keeps them entertained. They also know what they aren't supposed to play with and don't. And it just so happens that they also crave human attention and I do interact with them daily. They come and see me and either we play together with a toy or they snuggle close to me or they just want to get their head scratched. And that is fine by me. Not all interaction has to be training; there are other ways to interact and form bonds.

Flighted birds that don't do recall?
I leave my birds flighted so they can exercise. And oddly enough they fly to where they are aloud to go, not where they shouldn't. I do not bring my birds outside without them being in a carrier or aviary. And there is no chance of them escaping my apartment; they only way outside is seldom opened and both my boyfriend and I are careful when we do open that door that everyone is in. My main door does not open to the outside so they can't get out that way.

Sorry if this seemed heated, but your last post did struck a cord.

[Michael]

I didn't say anything against you nor did I say that food rewards are the only way to go. I said that some form of training is a must, otherwise the birds will be out of control and the owner will be frustrated with them. I said tricks are an optional bonus.

Most of what you described is taming which is great. Training isn't tricks + food. Training is repeated discrimination of actions that results in a form of reinforcement for the bird. That doesn't mean you have to bust out the clicker and treats necessarily.

We trained Duke to station on a perch in order to be let out of his cage. He used to run around like crazy or cling to the cage door to jump right out which was chaotic. We stopped letting him out when he wasn't on a perch and we reach in and ask him to step up right away when he is perched. Now it's funny to watch. When he sees us, he'll run over to a perch and stand on it. That's his way of asking nicely to come out! That was trained without any treats or cues. The reward was coming out and the cue was someone walking over to the cage and possibly putting a hand on the cage door. This is what I mean by the basic minimum of training and I know you do things like that. I don't know why you are getting all defensive. I was talking about people who keep their birds in a cage all day and at most open/close the cage to let them out and around but don't interact with them. I don't think it's possible to interact with them unless there is some basic training/taming though. How can you interact with a bird that won't step up, be pet, be touched, or allow you anywhere near it?

I know that tricks aren't the only way to interact with a bird. I also know that food isn't the only way to motivate a bird but it is one of the only quantitative ways to do it so it is a great way for serious trick training. But no matter which method you like, ANYTHING you give your bird as reward has to be something they are deprived of. Your birds like praise and attention as rewards because they don't get it all the time. If you praised your birds for hours on end, it wouldn't be a reward anymore

I don't see it as food deprivation though. I see everything I give to her as a reward. Doing a trick or recall = receive reward (food, praise, etc). Going back into cage when I decide = reward (meal for that part of the day). Sitting quietly in cage (vocalizations ok but no screaming) = get to come out of cage and freefly. So I don't think that I am in any way taking away from food she would have but rather see it as giving her rewards for all the great things she does. Seems to work pretty good for me.

[Kathleen]

It's a good thing to keep birds flighted for exercise. I think they overeat with free food in their cage and this keeps them in check.

[Natacha]

It's a good thing to keep birds flighted for exercise. I think they overeat with free food in their cage and this keeps them in check.

Which is probably best to control portions a bit.
My birds have free food available, but the proportion of pellets is bigger than the sample of seeds and the treats must be worked for.

I keep an eye on their weight as well; they are pretty consistent and within the norm so I free feeding with them is ok. Would they put on extra weight I would probably reconsider.

[Mona]

Hi Kathleen:

I free feed. My birds always have pellets available and they get their fresh food for breakfast.

I do train quite a bit. I use favorite treats for training.

Reinforcement is any thing that will increase a behavior. There are usually quite a few variables that reinforce a behavior. Favorite treats are quite effective.....but flock dynamics will certainly play a part.

Thanks!

Mona

[laducockatiel]

Yep, if I don't train my cockatiel for a long time he gets bored.

[liz]

My kids have free feeding of basic foods. That includes pellets, seed, vegi and grains.
Every once in a blue moon I will give them a cheeto. Sometimes I use a vegi peeler to get the salt off a stick pretzel to give them something different.

I don't trick train. They are little beings and not on this earth to entertain me. When they step up or come with comeer they are praised verbaly.
Though they both talk all the time and ask questions and answer questions, all I ever required of them was to learn the words "help" "come here". They do say it. The rest is just gravy.