Pellet question

[kellybird]

Okay its been a while since I posted on here. My 5 parrots have always been on a seed diet along with fresh fruits and veggies. Well I finally tried a few different pellets and found one my macaw will actually eat. Being he is only 2 years old the transition was easier but he still gets a handful of walnuts, brazil nuts and almonds daily along with the pellets. My other four birds are all over 15 years old and not working so much. Anyway my question is I looked at the ingredients and the first ingredient in all the pellets i see in stores the first ingred. is ground corn. Now isnt that the worst ingredient to have listed first? Not like dried fruits, veggies etc. I am now thinking about switching back and even when my birds eat there seed diet they would never eat the corn. No nutritional value really in corn. I am feeding him the Zupreem Avian Entrees right now. Help, not sure what to do. I thought these pellets were supposed to be better. I have always been totally agains pellet diets and I need someone to tell me i am wrong. My birds are so healthy otherwise except for my 18 year old Meyers parrot who now after being to the vet and nothing working we belive has a tumor in her eye. My poor baby has only one leg and now practically one eye. She will not make it much longer from what I see. But I do want her to have the right nutrition. Okay any help is greatly appreciated!!! kelly

[pchela]

Well, many will probably disagree with me but I think that if you provide a good, healthy diet with lots of variety, pellets aren't really necessary. If you don't, then yes, the birds need the extra nutrients from pellets but some pellets aren't great in the first place. I don't think pellets will hurt your parrot nor do I think they are bad for them but I whole heartedly disagree with an all pellet diet. Also, I tend to agree with you about the corn... it seems like a filler ingredient to me and not one that should be listed first... but the two top brands of pellets also have corn listed first so who knows...

[laducockatiel]

I agree, my bird is on a seed + fruit and veg diet, he's healthy and happy. In the wild they would eat seeds, they are perfectly fine with eating seeds. It is natural food! My seed mix varies and has 10 different types of seed and fruit. (I also give fresh fruit)

[kellybird]

Thanks for your responses! I know I am so unsure on the whole pellet thing now. I just can't get out of my head that now I am feeding them mostly corn. Your right in the wild they would not be eating pellets so why should I feed them that because they are in a cage? I know everyone has different opinions on the subject so I would love to hear more!! Again I do also give plenty of fruits, veggies etc.

[Michael]

Well, many will probably disagree with me but I think that if you provide a good, healthy diet with lots of variety, pellets aren't really necessary. If you don't, then yes, the birds need the extra nutrients from pellets but some pellets aren't great in the first place. I don't think pellets will hurt your parrot nor do I think they are bad for them but I whole heartedly disagree with an all pellet diet. Also, I tend to agree with you about the corn... it seems like a filler ingredient to me and not one that should be listed first... but the two top brands of pellets also have corn listed first so who knows...

I disagree with you for several reasons.

A) I don't think anyone really knows what the right "variety" is. It's up to everyone's best guesses and interpretations. There is no standardization of non-pellet diets so it is difficult to compare results.

B) It is far more likely to dilute rather than enhance nutrition with a "variety" of foods rather than pellets. The pellets are more concentrated so this wouldn't happen. The owner may not realize that some of the foods they are giving as part of variety are just filling a parrot up and denying itself from something more nutritious as a result.

C) Parrots can be fussy eaters and even if all the right foods could be offered, there's little chance it will actually eat all of them or in the right proportion. Pellets force the parrot to get everything and in a predetermined balance.

Ideally, I do believe there could be a perfect natural food diet for companion parrots. However, it would vary species by species and no one has a clue what it is. Everyone likes to think they know what food is best for their birds but I have yet to see any solid foundation for that. I even doubt the pellet manufacturers know what's best, however, they have years of research and standardization so it is more likely to see some long term results. But for people who have always fed "variety" it would be hard to pinpoint what elements of it worked and successfully reproduce for other owners.

Your right in the wild they would not be eating pellets so why should I feed them that because they are in a cage?

But in the wild they wouldn't be eating ANYTHING you are going to offer them. Whether you give them pasta, whole grains, fruits, veggies, seeds... these are not coming from the same habitats as these parrots (maybe an exception here and there, but for the vast most part). These are foods that were domesticated for human consumption and do not necessarily satisfy a parrot diet. Furthermore, they've been genetically modified, pesticides, blah blah blah. I am not one bit convinced that the natural/variety diet is any better than the pellet diet. Of course nutrition is nutrition so if they can get it from foods alternate to what they'd get it from in the wild, great. But then the "wild" argument neither applies to pellets nor any foods we can offer them.

So here is my reason for choosing a primarily pellet diet:

1) I've heard many success stories from owners
2) Experts, vets, and breeders suggest it
3) Pellet manufacturers have greater knowledge and research into parrot nutrition
4) My parrots on pellet diet have good short term health and plumage (vet confirmed)
5) Truman's breeder told me that she had a situation many years back when her mother was ill and she had to abandon her birds for a year. Her husband fed them nothing but pellets for that year (as opposed to wide variety diet before) out of convenience/necessity. She had the highest yield of babies, best plumage, and best health record with her breeder parrots (confirmed by her vet) than when they were on a variety diet.

So even if pellets are not the most natural or the most healthy diet, they seem to be more reliable and healthy than anything else that can be reproduced from owner to owner. People can report success with a particular pellet brand and even compare to other brands. This can help other owners. However, when one owner reports success with variety, there is no way for other owners to reproduce this (even if they share recipes because owners can't guarantee their birds will eat all the things or in the same proportions).

I don't even use the convenience of pellets as an argument here at all because that shouldn't be a determining reason for using them (except maybe when going on vacation and leaving someone to birdsit). If anyone is certain that their birds are healthier on the variety diet they are presently getting and have compared to them being on an all pellet diet, I think they should totally stay with that because they are lucky to find a working blend. But people shouldn't choose a variety diet only on the basis of belief that variety is more healthy than pellets. Experiment or compare with someone who has rather than guess. But for everyone looking for a reliable diet that has been tested by many parrot owners with success, go with a reputable brand of pellets.

Note: This is meant for parrots Senegal Parrot size or larger. Owners of Cockatiels, Budgies, and other Parakeets should look further into this because it may be possible that pellets are too nutritious and possibly dangerous to the long term health of those birds.

[laducockatiel]

yes michael, you are right. I think i was getting confused as my cockatiel breeder said that they will not eat pellets. they said that you dont need pellets if you have seeds. thanks for letting me know,when i replied i was thinking about cockatiels. sorry for the confusion guys.

[liz]

All my birds (Amazons, Love Birds and Cockatiels) like shredded wheal, corn flakes, crispy oat flakes, rice krispies and etc. If it is a grain they can have it. My dogs even eat shredded wheat.

I give them so much variety as well as seed and pellets that they never get bord.

Since tumors are not caused by what you are feeding them. Think of it this way - he has one leg and loosing an eye but he is happy and healthy otherwise. You must be doing something right.

[birdvet]

I agree with Michael! Also here is a bit more info. Cockatiels and budgies should also be offered seed as well as pellets as they have naturally evolved as seed eating birds and there is research and medical evidence to suggest that pelleted diets can cause renal problems due to excessive Vit A and Calcium. Some brands formulate pelleted diets specifically for these species and they have included lower levels of these two nutrients. Kaytee, Dr Macs etc are two such brands that have cockatiel and budgie specific pellets.

I completed an animal nutrition degree prior to becoming a veterinarian so I can hopefully explain a bit about the ingredients. Corn is cheap and has some value nutritionally. The companies formulating the diets have developed nutritional requirements for parrots and they will formulate a diet based on these. Corn is added first and then based on extensive and quite complex mathematical calculations they are able to determine what else needs to be added to the mix to result in a balanced diet. This is how diet formulation is done for all species of animals. Cost is always an issue so the cheapest ingredients are used first, doesn't mean they're any less nutricious, as long as the correct balance of additives is included.

So a diet for parrots that is the cheapest for a manufacturer to produce may include 70% corn, 15% wheat, 5% vitamin supplements, 2% phosphorus (to balance the high calcium in corn), 3% some other ingredient, etc etc...you get my drift? Each ingredient is also analysed so the company knows exactly how much calcium, phosphorus, energy, vitamins, energy, protein etc etc is in, for example the corn and then they will add extras to meet the nutritional requirements of the animal they are formulating the diet for.

In short, rest assured, just because corn is the first ingredient it does not mean the diet is poor quality, it is just companies trying to be cost effective in producing diets.

Of course, avian nutrition still needs heaps of research to come up with better nutritional requirements for each species, one day I imagine there will be diets for conures, diets for amazons, diets for african greys etc etc...who knows, maybe even further research will result in diets for nanday conures which may be different to diets for sun conures...exciting stuff all the research that is being done.

My own experience with pellets is great, my birds have a 75% pellet and 25% fruit and veg diet with the occasional nut, seed, piece of cheese as a treat. Their feathers are beautiful and they are all very healthy little kids.

Hope this crash course helped explain some nutrition and put some minds at ease about corn...it's not that evil

[MandyG]

As always, thank you for your input birdvet!

My own experience with pellets is great, my birds have a 75% pellet and 25% fruit and veg diet with the occasional nut, seed, piece of cheese as a treat. Their feathers are beautiful and they are all very healthy little kids.

That's about how I feed my birds. They get nuts and seeds as special treats and mostly pellets with veggies/fruits in the evening alongside their pellets. I've never thought of adding cheese, even in small amounts, to the diet. I was under the impression that cheese could be unhealthy for them, especially for Amazons that can be prone to weight problems. Is there any amount, type, or brand of cheese you recommend?

[laducockatiel]

All my birds (Amazons, Love Birds and Cockatiels) like shredded wheal, corn flakes, crispy oat flakes, rice krispies and etc. If it is a grain they can have it. My dogs even eat shredded wheat.

Use, my bird loves weetabix, cornflakes and special k. Hell fly to me for them and once when I was having breakfast, he tried eating it luckily he didn't cos they aren't allowed milk. I had to put him in the cage otherwise it would have consumed milk.