Pellet question

[liz]

All my birds (Amazons, Love Birds and Cockatiels) like shredded wheal, corn flakes, crispy oat flakes, rice krispies and etc. If it is a grain they can have it. My dogs even eat shredded wheat.

Use, my bird loves weetabix, cornflakes and special k. Hell fly to me for them and once when I was having breakfast, he tried eating it luckily he didn't cos they aren't allowed milk. I had to put him in the cage otherwise it would have consumed milk.

It amazes me that they know what you are eating in another room and will come and beg for it.
Rambo and Myrtle both ask for a taste of my food. Since I am a perpetual eater, they have developed an interest in all foods.

[birdvet]

Is there any amount, type, or brand of cheese you recommend?

I generally only use mozarella or colby cheese and in very teeny amounts. I use it as a reward for training because my birds don't like sunflower seeds but ADORE cheese. If you're just going to use it as an occasional treat I would restrict it to no more than once a week and only a very small piece.

[liz]

Is there any amount, type, or brand of cheese you recommend?

I generally only use mozarella or colby cheese and in very teeny amounts. I use it as a reward for training because my birds don't like sunflower seeds but ADORE cheese. If you're just going to use it as an occasional treat I would restrict it to no more than once a week and only a very small piece.

Rambo eats the cheese off the outside of a Cheeto and throws the naked inside on the floor for the dogs.

[Ollieparrot]

Hi All,
I have a 5 month old Senegal and have just begun the conversion to a seed diet Today was the first day and my wee lad is definitely not happy - he has been in a total strop since I got home from work and is still sqwarking in my ear as I write this!!!!
If possible could someone confirm if I am going about this in the right way please. Here is the new routine...
When I get up I say good morning to Ollie then go and have a drink or something out of his eyesight so that he doesn't think that he gets my attention right from the start of my day.
I then go and get him out of his cage by waiting until he is on the perch by his door, has done a poop and is settled. We do the step up routine and out he comes.
I then take his food and water bowls to be cleaned and refilled.
I put seed in his normal seed bowl, fruit and veg the normal bowl and water in the usual bowl then they all go back in his cage.
We then go for a shower - he loves getting saturated and then gently towel dried )toget rid of excess water)
After the shower Ollie gets put back in his cage while I have breakfast so that he gets a chance to eat some seed.
After breakfast I remove the seed and replace it with some pelleted food softened with some grape juice and water. This goes in his usual food bowl and put back in his cage in the usual place.
I then go to work and when returning home I removed the pellet food (he had tried only a very little bit or had just moved it around) and gave him some seed again although not a huge amount as he was making such a fuss I thought he must be hungry. He had eaten just about all of his fruit and vege so must have tried to fill up on this.

Does this routine sound sensible and should I persevere with it as he definitely doesn't appear to like pellets at all!All feedback greatly appreciated!!!
SImon x

[liz]

Hi All,
I have a 5 month old Senegal and have just begun the conversion to a seed diet Today was the first day and my wee lad is definitely not happy - he has been in a total strop since I got home from work and is still sqwarking in my ear as I write this!!!!
If possible could someone confirm if I am going about this in the right way please. Here is the new routine...
When I get up I say good morning to Ollie then go and have a drink or something out of his eyesight so that he doesn't think that he gets my attention right from the start of my day.
I then go and get him out of his cage by waiting until he is on the perch by his door, has done a poop and is settled. We do the step up routine and out he comes.
I then take his food and water bowls to be cleaned and refilled.
I put seed in his normal seed bowl, fruit and veg the normal bowl and water in the usual bowl then they all go back in his cage.

I love your routine. I am not the most knowledgable but I would mix some pellets in with the seed.
We then go for a shower - he loves getting saturated and then gently towel dried )toget rid of excess water)
After the shower Ollie gets put back in his cage while I have breakfast so that he gets a chance to eat some seed.
After breakfast I remove the seed and replace it with some pelleted food softened with some grape juice and water. This goes in his usual food bowl and put back in his cage in the usual place.
I then go to work and when returning home I removed the pellet food (he had tried only a very little bit or had just moved it around) and gave him some seed again although not a huge amount as he was making such a fuss I thought he must be hungry. He had eaten just about all of his fruit and vege so must have tried to fill up on this.

Does this routine sound sensible and should I persevere with it as he definitely doesn't appear to like pellets at all!All feedback greatly appreciated!!!
SImon x

[HungryBird]

I do not feed pellets as a large part of the diet but I do give some as treats. The brands I use are Harrison's and Totally Organic Pellets. Pellet ingredients are very important.

[JaySmith]

The basic fact of the matter is that no Parrot species is native to North America. That means that the fruits, nuts, seeds and vegetables found in North America are not going to be a part of the parrot's native diet, with perhaps a few exceptions.

This is especially true of fruit. What we consider fruit in America is so sweet and full of sugar that it should only be fed to parrots as a treat. The fruit they would be eating in the wild would be very pulpy and not considered tasty at all by human standards.

There is a good reason why corn is the first ingredient in even the best pellet diets. All pellet diets are fortified with the specific vitamins and nutrients that parrots need, and in the correct balance to give them the best health and longest lifespan. So don't think of the ground corn as being nutritionally sparse, think of it as corn with a bunch of really good and healthy vitamins and minerals mixed in. That is what a pellet diet is.

The best benefit to a mostly pellet diet is that your parrot will not be able to choose which foods it eats first. All parrots have favorite foods, and when you give them a mix, they will always eat the foods they like first before moving onto their second favorite, and so on. Invariably, the food they eat first is sunflower seeds, sweet fruit, nuts, and other high sugar or high fat foods. So the parrot fills up on food that is not at all good for it before eating a small amount of the food that is good for it.

Many parrots appear very happy and healthy eating a seed diet or other nutritionally sparse and fat-filled diet. Just like humans, if you eat nothing but junk food, you will be jolly and happy for a time, but your overall lifespan will be shortened considerably.

With pellets, the bird gets the same balanced nutrition in every bite. In my opinion, the three best pellet diets to choose from are Zupreem, Roudybush, and Harrison's pellets. Roudybush are probably the best. They are formulated by Tom Roudybush, Ph.D. who started his nutritional research in 1979 using the cockatiel as his model. Dr. Roudybush has published many excellent papers regarding the nutrition of pet birds and in my opinion "wrote the book" on parrot nutrition. He has literally been studying parrot nutrition through scientific studies since 1979.

All three of my parrots are on a 80% pellet diet with 20% fresh vegetables. I give them carrot tops, celery ends, broccoli and cauliflower ends, and basically any vegetable scraps that my family doesn't' eat. They get sunflower seeds and peanuts as treats only during training.

If your bird is used to a different diet, you can transition them to pellets rather easily in most cases. Begin by offering them a single pellet piece out of your hand as a treat. They need to identify the little pellets as food, or else they will ignore them. Sprinkle a few pellets into their usual mix for a week. Then for another week, give them a 20% pellet 80% usual diet mix. Increase the pellet to mix ratio every week until they're eating solely pellets.

It is important to monitor the birds during this transition as some birds will simply not take to eating the pellets and their health can suffer. If your bird is one of the few that refuses to give the pellets a chance, you can get a small box, place a mirror on the bottom of it, and sprinkle a few pellets on top of the mirror. I'm not sure why this works but it's usually successful. You can also try the birds on a pellet mash. Mix some pellets with warm apple juice until you get a paste. My birds LOVE this paste. If your birds still don't like it, then add their usual diet mix or some millet to the paste to form a kind of seed cake. The birds will pick out their favorite foods and in doing so get a taste of the pellets anyway.

When I re-homed my amazons they were on a Wal-Mart seed diet. I transitioned them to Roudybush pellets in only 3 weeks. I was careful to weigh them every other day to make sure they weren't losing weight.

As always, consult with a trained and experienced avian vet. Feed your birds the same food the vet feeds it's own birds. I would wager that you won't find an avian vet who doesn't use pellets.

[HungryBird]

For more about pellet ingredients I would suggest checking out this site. She has listed all the different ingredients and then breaks each one down so everyone can understand it. Also, I am including a link about menadione sodium bisulfite complex, which is an ingredient many bird owners avoid like the plague but is found in almost every single brand of pellets with the exception of Harrison's, Golden'Obles, and Totally Organic Pellets. Menadione sodium bisulfite complex is sometimes listed under another name such as dimethylprimidinol sulfate, Vitamin K supplement, or a source of Vitamin K activity. When in doubt just contact the pellet company directly and make sure to do it in writing. I have gotten two entirely different answers depending on how I ask. When I call I am told there is none. When I contact them in writing I am given the run around for a bit and then learn that they do in fact contain menadione sodium bisulfite complex. In my experience pellet companies are unwilling to answer that question and will want to know why you are asking before they answer the question. I have yet to come across any pellet that does not contain menadione sodium bisulfite complex except for the three kinds I mentioned above.

http://cocosflock.wordpress.com/the-pellet-project/

http://cocosflock.wordpress.com/2011/04/22/vitamin-k-and-menadione/

[Grey_Moon]

Most birds do not have wide enough degree of foods they do eat in captivity to even consider trying to do the variety diet. Even if we did, every species and indeed every individual is unique.
Plus, we don't have access to what they are evolved to eat and in no way do we know even what amounts and in which times they eat it.

That said, my guys get a diet that *is* just over half pellets. This is because I want to make sure they are getting enough of their daily fat, protein and vitamin and mineral requirements and unlike with humans we do not know how to structure a meal plan to do that. However, pellets are not all made equal and therefore you wouldn't catch me feeding Roudybush, or Tropican or Kaytee etc. Because then, I have to come face to face with the fact that half my birds' food is ground grain by-products and worse that just happens to be chock full of synthetic vitamins. I want my pellets to be comprised of whole foods. But for the same reason as pellets exist for me to give those vitamins I don't feed TOPS pellets either. I've experimented with the Nutribird from Versele-Laga as well as the Golden'obles from Goldenfeast, but so far Harrisons is giving me the best.

However, I do only feed 60% percent pellets because pellets are a 'dead' food, they've been ground, cooked and there are certain nutrients and enzymes and etc that you cannot get in cooked/processed food. So the rest of their diets are rounded out as per need and species.

My grey eats: 60% Harrisons HIgh-Potency Coarse, 30% combo of nuts/eggs, fruits and veggies and the remaining 10 is sunflower seed and sprouts (dry seed is only for training).

My tiel: 60% Harrisons High-Potency Fine (although many say cockatiels should be low-protein he is a sensitive and special needs bird who is easily made ill from stress so he needs the extra---he is also flighted so less protein, calories and fat is not a good idea---but a good example of tailoring to your individual bird), 25% sprouts and 15% fruits, veggies, etc.)
Both also get a bit of palm oil on their fresh food daily.

[TheNzJessie]

I agree with Michael! Also here is a bit more info. Cockatiels and budgies should also be offered seed as well as pellets as they have naturally evolved as seed eating birds and there is research and medical evidence to suggest that pelleted diets can cause renal problems due to excessive Vit A and Calcium. Some brands formulate pelleted diets specifically for these species and they have included lower levels of these two nutrients. Kaytee, Dr Macs etc are two such brands that have cockatiel and budgie specific pellets.

I completed an animal nutrition degree prior to becoming a veterinarian so I can hopefully explain a bit about the ingredients. Corn is cheap and has some value nutritionally. The companies formulating the diets have developed nutritional requirements for parrots and they will formulate a diet based on these. Corn is added first and then based on extensive and quite complex mathematical calculations they are able to determine what else needs to be added to the mix to result in a balanced diet. This is how diet formulation is done for all species of animals. Cost is always an issue so the cheapest ingredients are used first, doesn't mean they're any less nutricious, as long as the correct balance of additives is included.

So a diet for parrots that is the cheapest for a manufacturer to produce may include 70% corn, 15% wheat, 5% vitamin supplements, 2% phosphorus (to balance the high calcium in corn), 3% some other ingredient, etc etc...you get my drift? Each ingredient is also analysed so the company knows exactly how much calcium, phosphorus, energy, vitamins, energy, protein etc etc is in, for example the corn and then they will add extras to meet the nutritional requirements of the animal they are formulating the diet for.

In short, rest assured, just because corn is the first ingredient it does not mean the diet is poor quality, it is just companies trying to be cost effective in producing diets.

Of course, avian nutrition still needs heaps of research to come up with better nutritional requirements for each species, one day I imagine there will be diets for conures, diets for amazons, diets for african greys etc etc...who knows, maybe even further research will result in diets for nanday conures which may be different to diets for sun conures...exciting stuff all the research that is being done.

My own experience with pellets is great, my birds have a 75% pellet and 25% fruit and veg diet with the occasional nut, seed, piece of cheese as a treat. Their feathers are beautiful and they are all very healthy little kids.

Hope this crash course helped explain some nutrition and put some minds at ease about corn...it's not that evil

completly off topic here but im curious about your kakapo friend lisa, also have you ever been involved in the breed and release programs of kiwi? im starting my bachelor at unitec in march its called Bachelor of Applied Science (Animal Management and Welfare) and doing to do captive wild animals elective course i changed from wanting do to a one year captive course to a 3 year bachelor.