Freezing harrisons?

[Andromeda]

Thanks, Marie. I e-mailed Harrison's to ask them about it but if you're doing it and it's what your vet does I'll just go ahead and order the bigger bag this time so I can freeze it.

How do you defrost it? I mean I know it doesn't block up but I imagine it's probably really hard and cold coming out of the freezer versus at room temperature. Do you put it in the fridge over night or leave it on the counter for a while?

One of my birds is super picky about cold things and refuses to eat anything below room temperature. When I give him juice or fruit that's been in the fridge I have to warm it up first.

[Michael]

I know Michael freezes his Roudybush pellets, and I was also wondering how to defrost them once they are frozen? Do you put them in the fridge to defrost or do you leave them on the counter overnight?

I can't speak for Harrisons because they are organic and I'm not sure how preservation applies with them. I just know that spoiled organic food can be very dangerous. My opinion is there is some inherent loss of nutrients in the freezing process. If you're going to do that, why bother getting the best of the best.

Onto what I do know a little about, freezing/thawing pellets. What I actually do is transfer all the contents of a big package into gallon freezer bags and freeze them. I keep a cooler next to my bird's cages for convenience. Even before I started freezing pellets, I just used it as a "cool dry storage place." I actually REALLY recommend this because it keeps the food well protected from bugs/rodents that just dream of getting at it. The gallon bags last me about a month so a day before the last portion is finished, I just pull a frozen bag from the freezer and let it slowly thaw in the cooler. I work from that bag for the next month and it's not particularly different from simply buying smaller portions and using them directly. But like I said, I dunno if it's worth going through the expense of buying unprocessed/organic and then subjecting it to freezing.

I'm not trying you convince you to switch, but I explained my reasoning for choosing Roudybush over an organic pellet here.

[marie83]

All pellets are processed ? Anything altered from its natural state is considered processed to some degree.
As for freezing I haven't done too much research into it but freezing preserves nutrients better than most other storage methods or so I've read, if you have any resources saying differently I would very much like to read them.
As for the matter of food decay, freezing inhibits bacterial growth so if your bringing it out on a day by day basis, or chilling it when you bring portions out and not storing for silly lengths of time then it will be fine. Totally organic pellets states on the bag that it is suitable for freezing.

If any of this is really concerning anyone you can look into long term food storage methods using, suitable containers/bags, oxygen and moisture absorbers but tbh thats a hell of alot of hassle when most people will get through it pretty quickly anyway. It also needs you to 100% know what your doing because this method can be risky if you make any mistakes.

How do you defrost it? I mean I know it doesn't block up but I imagine it's probably really hard and cold coming out of the freezer versus at room temperature. Do you put it in the fridge over night or leave it on the counter for a while?

One of my birds is super picky about cold things and refuses to eat anything below room temperature. When I give him juice or fruit that's been in the fridge I have to warm it up first.

I spilt the big bags up in 1/2lb portions to freeze and keep the currently in use portion in the fridge. Personally I will serve it cold or even frozen if I have forgotton to get a bag out the freezer and my two dont care, but we use the harrisons fine so it doesnt take long to warm up anyway. I dont think it would be a problem with the coarse if you left a measured amount out for an hour on the counter in their dish or sealed tub before serving.

[Michael]

I understand. But my point is that after (arbitrary/guess) a month of normal storage or a few months of freezing, the whole organic and special value of the pellet has degraded to no better than any other kind. If you buy and use the organic pellets in very short spans of time, that is when you are most likely to get the benefits. If there is benefit to it being organic, then it must be consumed quickly to make use of that. If you are looking for ways to preserve it, you might be better off with something that is made to preserve longer. This is why I say that Harrisons is not 2x more expensive but actually 4x more expensive than Roudybush. That's because of the short span in which it must be consumed, so you end up having to throw half out (or getting less benefit out of it which begs the question why bother). Anyway, when we get into the world of parrot nutrition, it's mostly just opinion. So there's my four half pennies.

[marie83]

Yea yea, thats fair enough, I'm not arguing against your opinion as such but questioning your reasoning cuz hey, I might learn something or have my opinion swayed.

I get what your saying about nutritional values, any stored food degrades in that way. However I can't agree with the reasoning about the organic part, the point of organic is that it is free from artificial chemicals, just because it is frozen wont change that.
As for price comparison I don't know as roudybush isn't available at all over here at the present time. I don't know which brands stocked in the uk are compariable with roudybush nutritionally but there are a few over her that don't have artificial colours. However the harrisons works out less than £4 a month for me which isn't much at all, obviously a factor is that I don't have large birds although Harlie would eat double if I let her, her weight balloons if I let her freefeed for a while, you can see just from looking at her, she is literally half the bird she used to be lol.

[Michael]

I get what your saying about nutritional values, any stored food degrades in that way. However I can't agree with the reasoning about the organic part, the point of organic is that it is free from artificial chemicals, just because it is frozen wont change that.

No no, that's exactly the point. Because it's organic and free from chemicals it degrades way quicker. So if you don't use it soon, you may as well throw it out.

Let's just say hypothetically that the value of fresh organic pellets is a 10 and the premium non organic is an 8. Within a month the organic will degrade to 8 while the premium with preservatives remains 8. In 2 months time the organic is a 6 while premium remains 8. After freezing for a year the premium is a 7 while after freezing for a year the organic is now also a 7. That's kind of the idea I'm tossing around. It's not based on much but just observations of these sorts of foods. What the exact values are, nobody knows. I won't deny that the organic is probably better when used immediately. But its resistance to deterioration is worse so once you approach expiration, who knows if there is any benefit any more?

I don't disagree with your reasoning for using harrisons. Just arguing about the overall value.

[marie83]

No I understand what you are trying to say better now you have put it like that and is a very very good point indeed and one I hadn't really thought of. I wouldn't know whether the rate of nutritional value decline is affected because it is frozen though. Another thing on my list of things to read up on if there is any research available.

[Andromeda]

Very interesting conversation going on here. Thanks for all the input, Michael and Marie.

Michael, I did read your blog post about Roudybush and I understand your reasons for choosing it.

I initially went with Harrison's because it's what my vet recommended and it's also organic, which I like. I do see what you're saying with regards to freezing it defeating the purpose that it's organic and, as you said, it's also more expensive so you are losing the benefit of that expense.

The instructions on the package say to refrigerate after opening and use within 6 weeks, which is what I do.

I e-mailed them and asked them about freezing it, and here was the response they gave me:

"Thank you for writing to us with your questions about storing the foods.

Using an open bag within the six-week time frame is a firm recommendation - when you do not incorporate artificial preservatives in a product you turn to packaging (the Harrison's foil bag) and shorter storage periods to keep foods fresh.

You would not likely eat a box of cereal that was open for six weeks or a carton of milk, loaf of bread etc.

It is the same for Harrison's."

Now here's the really interesting thing that I dug up on their site: they make a product called Harrison's Bird Bread Mix. Basically it is a mix in a bag and you add oil and eggs and bake it. Right on the page it says, "Bird Bread can be stored for 1 week in the refrigerator and 1 year in the freezer after baking."

But then I look at the ingredients and what do I see? Among other things: Harrison's Bird Foods (Adult Lifetime Coarse & Fine, High Potency Coarse & Fine). So basically their "bread" contains some of their organic pellets---the same type they told me in the e-mail never to use past 6 weeks---and yet they are saying you can freeze the "bread" for up to a year.

I kind of feel like e-mailing them and pointing out this discrepancy and seeing how they respond. Actually, I'm going to go do that, right now. LOL

[Wayne361]

I think all pellets can be frozen. I freeze mine and a bag lasts me 6 months. Costs me about $40/year to feed Oscar his pellet portion of his diet. Now fresh veggies and some fruit costs more but thats not the purpose of this thread.

Wayne

[Michael]

I think all pellets can be frozen. I freeze mine and a bag lasts me 6 months. Costs me about $40/year to feed Oscar his pellet portion of his diet. Now fresh veggies and some fruit costs more but thats not the purpose of this thread.

The question isn't whether or not they can be, but is there a benefit to going to an organic pellet if it is to be frozen and stored?

I wouldn't be surprised that the manufacturer is against freezing (whether or not the point I make is valid) because obviously it's better if people throw out anything at 6 weeks and buy new. So asking them won't really give you the answer you're looking for. An of course they are covering themselves by saying that they can't support the product after 6 weeks.