Freezing harrisons?

[janetafloat]

This is all very interesting! I feed my tiel Harrison's but I haven't used up my first 1lb bag yet & it's been over 2 months. Because of this I looked into switching to Roudybush but it's not available in the UK & the shipping costs from mainland Europe make it as expensive as Harrison's. I don't fancy any of the other available options so I guess I'll be freezing the next bag of Harrison's.

[marie83]

Well I don't think anyone can really argue that freezing will prolong the life of the pellets in both the sense of spoilage and nutritional value, I think its just a matter of how fast the product deteriorates whilst frozen, which we cannot know without scientific experiments. I'm fairly confident it remain at least "good enough" for at least 6 months when frozen but I will try to find out more when I get chance to. Anyone wishing to do this can do so at their own risk of course, I'm mearly saying what I do and my reasoning behind my desicion

Interesting reply from harrisons, but yeah obviously theres the more sales aspect to consider- "You would not likely eat a box of cereal that was open for six weeks or a carton of milk, loaf of bread etc."
Clearly they don't live in my house, we freeze pretty much everything, including bread if we wont use it quick enough which can be in there for weeks. Nor do we pay too much attention to best before or use by dates if it has been stored correctly with the exception of fresh meats etc. Of course it won't be as fresh and nutritious as a berry you just picked from a bush but nor will it just suddenly have little nutritional value either.
It is possible that diferent nutrients wont degrade at the same rate too so that something that was once a balanced diet would then have a different nutritional ratio to when it was first made. This feeding malarky is darn complicated but I'm fairly happy with what I do for the moment.

[Andromeda]

I wouldn't be surprised that the manufacturer is against freezing (whether or not the point I make is valid) because obviously it's better if people throw out anything at 6 weeks and buy new. So asking them won't really give you the answer you're looking for. An of course they are covering themselves by saying that they can't support the product after 6 weeks.

Well, yeah, they are covering themselves and also it's more profitable for them when people throw it out at six weeks and buy new.

Still, I e-mailed them to ask about the Bird Bread:

"Harrison's Bird Bread Mix has several ingredients but the main ingredients are, according to your website, 'Harrison's Bird Foods (Adult Lifetime Coarse & Fine, High Potency Coarse & Fine).' Also according to your website: 'Bird Bread can be stored for ... 1 year in the freezer after baking.'

If the pellets themselves are unsuitable for freezing and must always be consumed within six weeks, why is the Bird Bread suitable for freezing for up to a year when they are made from the very same pellets?"

I haven't gotten an answer yet but I am really curious as to what they will say.

[Andromeda]

UPDATE: Here is the answer from Harrison's regarding freezing the bread:

"All Harrison’s products should be used up in 6 weeks – including baked Bird Bread.
I had to find where the incorrect info was but it has been corrected – thank you for bringing that to my attention."

I checked their product page for their Bird Bread and sure enough, now it says, "Bird Bread can be stored for ... up to 6 weeks in the freezer after baking."

The thing is they've had that bread on the market for several years, since around 2009, I think, and it took me pointing out the discrepancy before they changed the storage instructions. I wonder how many people in the last few years had been freezing the bread and keeping it for longer than six weeks?

[Michael]

I suspect that the reason is that freezing beyond 6 weeks results in the loss of nutritional benefit of the good being organic rather than spoilage specifically. However, when it comes to organic food you really don't want to be taking chances. You can do more harm than good by feeding spoiled organic food so if you want to use it properly, you're going to have to throw most of it out and keep restocking. Of course I wouldn't entirely rule out that they just want people to throw it out and buy more so they make more money. But given that it's organic and doesn't preserve well, I don't think they are really lying. This is why I opted against organic for my birds.

[Andromeda]

I don't think they're lying, either. It's just a bit disconcerting that their storage info has been wrong for years. I'm glad I caught it and it's corrected.

I don't take chances with my organic food and use it within six weeks. I have two birds and they are not on free-feed so at the end of six weeks I do end up discarding some of the food but most of the bag is used. It costs me about $7 total for six weeks worth of food---a little under 17 cents a day. If we say a month is 30 days that's $5 per month.

I know it costs you about $4 per month to feed your birds so I completely understand why you opted against organic. Honestly if I had one bird I couldn't begin to use the bag and I would end up throwing so much of it away I'd probably just go with Roudybush instead but since I use most of the bag with two birds I don't mind paying $1 extra per month for the benefits (at least as far as I'm concerned, I know your opinion differs) of organic.

[Michael]

When you put it that way, it sounds like an insignificant price difference in the short run. But I just checked the numbers and it's not the case here.

25lbs of Harrisons from a bulk retailer is $99.99
25lbs of Roudybush from the same seller is $35.99

This doesn't include shipping so really it's about $50 and $115. So the Harrisons really is twice, closer to 3 times more expensive. Then you add the fact that it doesn't store well and you have to throw some out, it's even worse. In that case it comes down to something more like:

25lbs Roudybush frozen lasts 7 months. $7/month for 2x birds
5lbs Harrison's every 6 weeks is $25 + shipping = $35. That's $140 for 6 months! $23.30 per month. Or $163.33 for the 7 month period as opposed to $50. That is more than 3 times as expensive for a very difficult to measure benefit. I remember doing this math for myself back when I made the decision but there it is for you. I don't know how you came up with $7 per month. Maybe your bird is smaller or Harrison's is cheaper there. But based on a very cheap online retailer that is way cheaper than buying in stores, it still comes out to 3x cheaper to use Roudybush.

So to me it's not just about the actual dollar amount but also the dollar to benefit ratio and I don't think it comes remotely close. Harrison's obviously isn't 3x better. Maybe 1.3x better at most so the price doesn't remotely justify it to me.

[marie83]

I suspect that the reason is that freezing beyond 6 weeks results in the loss of nutritional benefit of the good being organic rather than spoilage specifically. However, when it comes to organic food you really don't want to be taking chances. You can do more harm than good by feeding spoiled organic food so if you want to use it properly, you're going to have to throw most of it out and keep restocking. Of course I wouldn't entirely rule out that they just want people to throw it out and buy more so they make more money. But given that it's organic and doesn't preserve well, I don't think they are really lying. This is why I opted against organic for my birds.

So why would TOPs be ok but not Harrisons? Hmmmm

[Andromeda]

My math is horrid so I've had to edit this like five times. Ugh.

Okay, I totally see where you're coming from now. And yeah, my math was totally wrong, so I'm going to correct it.

You're using 3 1/2 lbs. per month. I'm using 2 lbs. in six weeks (1.4 lbs. per month).

Here's my situation:

You're talking about buying it in bulk. I don't do that. I buy Harrison's in 1 lb. bags from my vet. They do sell 5 lb. bags (which they initially tried to get me to buy instead of the 1 lb.) as well but I would end up throwing the vast majority of that away---let alone a 25 lb. bag!---so I don't buy it in large quantities.

I just dug up a vet receipt to double-check that the price I was giving was right, and I was off by $1.

So, adjusting for that, each 1 lb. bag costs me $8 and 2 last me six weeks (until I have to throw it out) so it's actually 38 cents per day (not 17) or $11.43 (not $5) per month. Much more than I had previously posted.

So that's where I'm getting my math and it's correct now. Apologies for it being horrid previously.

Your birds eat more food per month, so that's a big factor. If I had to choose $7 per month for Roudybush vs. $23.30 per month for Harrison's, yeah, you bet I'd buy Roudybush, too!

For me, though, my birds eat less so it's $7 vs. $11.43. Maybe to you that still wouldn't work out to be cost vs. benefit effective but in my situation, to me, it's worth it.

[Michael]

For me, though, my birds eat less so it's $7 vs. $11.43. Maybe to you that still wouldn't work out to be cost vs. benefit effective but in my situation, to me, it's worth it.

Just for factual accuracy... it's not $7 vs $11.43. It's $3.50 vs $11.43 when adjusted for your usage ratio based on original price ratio. Add the fact that you're throwing Harrison's away at the end of 6 weeks but Roudybush would still be good... even cheaper. Either way $3 or $12 a month is nothing so it's not the limiting factor, but it's important to keep this 3x price difference in mind. If you can afford to feed harrisons and throw it out after 6 weeks, that's great. Your birds are still better off. You just have to realize the disproportionate amount you are overpaying to do that.

Just one more point to consider. In twenty years I would have spent $5592 for Harrisons vs $1680 for Roudybush (coming off of my price numbers and my birds consumption) and in reality it's a lot more for the Harrisons cause of the higher waste and inability to buy in bulk (expiration reasons).

I'm not against Harisons. I just thing it is ridiculously and disproportionately expensive for the benefit.