Freezing harrisons?

[Andromeda]

Just for factual accuracy... it's not $7 vs $11.43. It's $3.50 vs $11.43 when adjusted for your usage ratio based on original price ratio.

Good catch, all those edits and I still couldn't get my math straight.

Add the fact that you're throwing Harrison's away at the end of 6 weeks but Roudybush would still be good... even cheaper. ... If you can afford to feed harrisons and throw it out after 6 weeks, that's great. Your birds are still better off. You just have to realize the disproportionate amount you are overpaying to do that.

The reason why I end up using 2 open bags at a time and have throw some out is because one bird eats the coarse and one bird eats the fine. I'm transitioning my brown headed parrot to the fine and once I do that I won't be throwing bags away any more because between my two birds I'll be able to use up a whole bag of fine before the six weeks are up.

It'll still be more expensive but at least they'll be less waste.

Just one more point to consider. In twenty years I would have spent $5592 for Harrisons vs $1680 for Roudybush (coming off of my price numbers and my birds consumption) and in reality it's a lot more for the Harrisons cause of the higher waste and inability to buy in bulk (expiration reasons).

I'm not against Harisons. I just thing it is ridiculously and disproportionately expensive for the benefit.

Yikes, that is a whole lot more over the long run.

[marie83]

Right, I have done a little research on the frozen foods issue. My research has been done on foods in general rather than more specicically parrot food. I also haven't had time to go deeply into any scientific papers as yet, so make of this what you will, however this is what the FFF have to say about frozen foods and my personal take on the information.

-As long as foods are consistantly stored at temperatures below -18 degrees celcius they will remain safe to eat indefinitely. So basicly as long as you keep it frozen until needed you shouldn't have anything to worry about as long as it is used within a few hours. Foods will not just suddenly spoil the minute it is taken out the freezer, keeping it chilled will slow the spoilage process down and the fact pellets are under 10% moisture will slow it down even further. Bacteria needs 3 main componants to thrive- oxygen, warmth and moisture.

-Freezing is by far the safest way to preserve food, assuming the temperatures dont rise above -18c.

-You can expect frozen foods to remain at peak quality up to the best before date on the packet, organic foods already take food degradation into account by stamping them with a shorter shelf life. After this point assuming correct storage procedures are followed the food will still be safe to eat but may have a decreased eating quality.

- Freezing foods and then storing them at temperatures of -18°C or lower slows the natural degradation process practically to zero. So there will be some nutrient loss but its not worth losing sleep over if the food is still in date.

[spiral]

i am impressed with the amount of research here

[Betsy]

I haven't been to this forum for a while but I was visiting again last night and found this thread really interesting. I feed both Roudybush and Harrison's to my Pionus, along with some other pellets. This is at the recommendation of my local parrot store. They make a great point about mixing pellets because no one knows everything about parrot nutrition and no pellet is perfect, it makes sense to feed a mixture. Also, parrots like variety, and it encourages foraging. Here is an article from their website if anyone is interested in details about which pellets they mix and why: [url]http://parrotisland.mainsecureserver.com/catalog/article_info.php?articles_id=14[url]

I have noticed that Earl's favorite is Roudybush (low-fat) and he completely rejects Scenic, even after taking a break from it and re-introducing. The other brands he could take or leave. So, I am going to refine the mixture I feed to cut out the ones he rejects so I'm not wasting $. I also feed him a seed/fruit mix as a foraging treat and supplement with some fresh foods.

[Jakrob4]

I haven't been to this forum for a while but I was visiting again last night and found this thread really interesting. I feed both Roudybush and Harrison's to my Pionus, along with some other pellets. This is at the recommendation of my local parrot store. They make a great point about mixing pellets because no one knows everything about parrot nutrition and no pellet is perfect, it makes sense to feed a mixture. Also, parrots like variety, and it encourages foraging. Here is an article from their website if anyone is interested in details about which pellets they mix and why: [url]http://parrotisland.mainsecureserver.com/catalog/article_info.php?articles_id=14[url]

I have noticed that Earl's favorite is Roudybush (low-fat) and he completely rejects Scenic, even after taking a break from it and re-introducing. The other brands he could take or leave. So, I am going to refine the mixture I feed to cut out the ones he rejects so I'm not wasting $. I also feed him a seed/fruit mix as a foraging treat and supplement with some fresh foods.

DON"T mix pellets.
One of the most important factors in a birds diet is keeping the calcium to phosphorous ratio at 2:1.
Calcium levels in different pelleted diets vary anywhere bewteen 0.5% to 1.1%.
There is also many other factors that are involved like vitamins fighting for uptake, or inhibition of one nutrient due to too much of another.

[Jakrob4]

Before saying this I want to say you taught me nearly everything I know about training birds and I think you are amazing for it, but....
MICHEAL, TAKE YOUR BIG RUDE KNOW IT ALL FOOT OUT OF YOUR MOUTH FOR ONCE.
And do not remove this post due to it damaging your ego alot of people read this.
You obviously know very little about bird food and obviously know nothing about the reasons why we should be farming organically.
I think I need to lay down a few FACTS.

If you read the ingredients on harrisons you will notice it does contain preservatives
http://www.harrisonsbirdfoods.com/ourfo ... foods.html
If you notice the words Natural Mixed Tocopherols and Rosemary Extract.
These have No nutritional benefit and are purely used as preservatives derived from natural sources.

Now "Harrison's nutrients degrade faster than Roudybush due to being organic" is complete bullshit.
For something to be certified organic it only has to have 95% Organic ingredients, every vitamin the bird needs can be put in this other 5%.

Let me give you a little lesson about how Harrison's pellets are made.
They are extruded.
Meaning they are made up of cheap organic grains and seeds ground into flour form,
then mixed with whatever ARTIFICIAL vitamins can handle the extrusion process (THE SAME USED IN ROUDYBUSH).
They are then heated to temperatures over 200 degrees Celsius, killing nearly every bit of natural nutritional content, and pushed out through a little poo hole like a hot cooked cookie dough and cut into size.
They are then sprayed with more ARTIFICIAL nutrients that are needed, that couldn't hold up to the heat of the cooking (extrusion).

What your left with is a pretty much a sunflower/peanut flavored multivitamin cookie,
with little chance of bacterial contamination due to being exposed to such a high heat.

Now these other ARTIFICIAL added nutrients are different from normal chemical makeups (vitamins) in food.
They are in stable form, meaning they don't have nearly as high losses due to cooking, oxygen exposure etc.

When it comes down to it there is not much difference in ingredients with any of the types of pellets on the market, other than TOPS maybe (Which will leave your bird deficient in Vitamin D and B12).

Harrison's is defiantly better off using organic grains, the pesticides in the normal grains don't get destroyed by the cooking and are eaten by your bird.
Aswell as higher levels of nutrient inhibiting phytic acid are proven in foods grown with non organic fertilizer.
Phytic acid chelates many minerals and is only partially destroyed by cooking.

When it comes to freezing pellets.
Vitamin C and the B vitamins suffer the biggest nutritional losses in frozen fruits and vegetables, according to a 2007 study in the Journal of the Science of Food and Agriculture. Levels of polyphenoic substances, which act as antioxidants to protect your cells from damage, also are lower in frozen fruits than fresh. Other nutrients, such as fiber, minerals, proteins and fat-soluble vitamins such as vitamins A, E and carotenoids retain their value in either frozen or canned fruits and vegetables.

Birds produce there own vitamin C so that isn't a worry.
And all brands have added stable artificial vitamin B sources.
With this said can't see any reason why Harrison's should have higher nutrient loss than any other brand when being frozen only 6 months, unless that brand has really high levels of unwanted synthetic preservatives.
Only have to look at all the sulfur allergies in humans now to realise you shouldn't be eating preservatives regularly.
Aswell as them banning BHA, BHT, ethoxyquin in human foods due to it being carcinogenic,
yet still using it in pet foods.

Now lets transfer that to a bird with a much more sensitive immune system and give that preservative and pesticide filled food as 80% of its diet? don't have to be a scientist to figure out that is asking for trouble.
How much do you really love your birds?

I'm not going to type all about the reasons why we should use organic but PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE read this page,
it does a pretty good explanation.
http://www.organic.org/articles/showarticle/article-206

Kind Regards
Jake