?'s about full spectrum lighting/screaming issues

[bassrox75]

ok so if you're not aware, my boyfriend and i have a pair of senegals, 13 and 15 y/o. they are rescues and to add to that they lived in a barn for five years before we got them. he has the experience with birds, this is my first go and its proving to be a little more frustrating than i had imagined.
we have had the two (not mated, one being female the other sex unknown) for a year now and until recently biting and screaming had not been an issue.
i live in ND so winters here are long and with little sunlight. thinking about this prompted me to ask the woman we trust at the local bird house about lighting for the birds...(we are people who work nights so we sleep as much as possible during the day) which also means the birds must be on our schedule for anyone to get a good nights rest. anywho my suspicions were right-sunlight is definatly a neccessity for birds as well as most other animals, including humans. i have been looking into full spectrum lighting since then and wanted to know if this will in fact help with the behavioral issues we have been experiencing lately.
the screaming coming from their room if we arent with them is awful. it reminds me of seperation anxiety in dogs. i am afraid for my lease because it has become such an issue. as soon as we all wake up to start the day they get fed and time out of their cages until we go to work (usually a good hour or two) but as soon as its time to get ready for work my female has been stepping up and then as soon as shes on my hand she looks at me and then bites, then bites down again even harder. if i catch "the look" early enough i tip my hand to off-balance her and she wont bite, but more often than not she draws blood. it makes for a sad day when the little feather ball you love is biting hard enough for tears and you're not sure what to do anymore. then-back to the cage...and the non stop screaming marathon starts. the birds have the extra bedroom in our apartment and i can see being flock animals how this might be part of the reason why they're upset to be away from us but this is out of control screaming. and when we first moved them into that bedroom six months ago it wasnt even an issue...they seemed comfortable in that room at first.
does anyone think this may have to do with not getting the proper amount of natural light? i have been hoping that buying a bulb will help to solve my to lovely senegals attitude issues. also-should i have a light for each cage? i am thinking of buying an inexpensive floor lamp and replacing the bulbs with the featherbrite 15W full spectrum bulbs. if you have suggestions as to how many hours a day i should set timers for, etc. all of that would also be greatly appreciated.
any advice would be appreciated however i promise i scoured this site before i even got down to writing this post. thank you for your help!

[Maria]

As a matter of fact, glad you're starting a thread on full spectrum lighting. I've just myself learned sunlight and/or providing full spectrum lighting is important for them.

For one, they can't be directly with the sun hitting them, overheating them, regarding a sunny window, cause they could die from overheating from this, without being able to escape.

For two, the full spectrum lighting/bulbs, needs to be 20 inches above the cage, and not on the side of the cage. If it's on the side of the cage, that would result in the birds looking into the light, which these bulbs can then damage their eyes.

I'm still researching full spectrum lighting too, and how to use it properly.

I would like a small to medium size lamp to put on my dresser next to the cage, and maybe I could just point it up to the ceiling or something, just to light up the room with it.

I've seen a picture of a floor lamp for full spectrum bulbing, and bending the arm which has the bulb thingy attachment part over the top of the cage, 20" above the cage.

Everyone please provide insight you have on full spectrum lighting.

Otherwise fore now I'm just experimenting with opening the blinds a bit in a way, for now, also, and so that the blinds also block the sun from directly beaming onto him through the window, but so that he still gets some natural sunlight. Remember that sun rays also come through the clouds, so you have to be careful with this

[Michael]

Sunlight is important for health and well being but I don't think it greatly affects behavior and especially screaming. Of course sunlight, nutrition, environment, etc all play a role in the bird's behavior to some extent so optimizing everything + training does eventually solve issues. It's much harder to pinpoint down to which ones are vital vs not so it's best to work on all of them. However, I don't think those full spectrum lights are any substitute for taking parrots outside in sunshine (in suitable temperature). They just get this glow around them, fresh smell, and complete thrill. Then coming back inside they are exhausted and just want to sit in their cages and relax. It's an experience.

[rebeccaturpeinen]

Interesting that you asked this... I have a full specttrum light next to Joe's cage and it broke a couple of days ago, I havent been able to buy him a new one yet and he has been GRUMPY!! Nervous and definitly screaming more. The only thing that has changed is the light so in my opinion it does help with behavious.

Anyway, its worth a try... it is definitly good for them so either way it cant hurt.

[cml]

For two, the full spectrum lighting/bulbs, needs to be 20 inches above the cage, and not on the side of the cage. If it's on the side of the cage, that would result in the birds looking into the light, which these bulbs can then damage their eyes.

I'm still researching full spectrum lighting too, and how to use it properly.

I hadnt thought about the bird lamps being harmful for their eyes, I was told they werent, but that reptile lamps (which are stronger and brighter) were.

However, until I know for sure I decided to do this (I put it together just now from a lamp screen I quickly "modified":

This makes the light bulb visible from half the cage, the other half still gets ambient light, but no direct line to the bulb. That way they can choose for themselvs. What do you guys think?

Also, as my cage has a ceiling, and not bars or wire, hanging it above the cage would be pointless. It has to be on the side.

(The little screen attached to my desk is for my benefit ^^).

[Maria]

Bassrox

I'm wondering if your bird(s) started screaming because of has there been any changes in the amount or kind of attention you have been giving them?

I know also at times when my bird starts screaming for me, "mama! mama! with the high pitched scream" - (his cue-ing me that he wants my attention or he wants me to be with him) - if I happen to be in another room, - if I talk to him from another room, he changes from screaming to responding.

For example:

Baby: mama mama RAAA RAAA! rrraaa RRRRAA rrraaa RRRAAA mama mama! rrraaaRRRAAA!

Me: Baaabyyy - Do you looove meeeEEE????

Baby: I loooOOOOve youuuuu.

Me: Go 'head! Sing!

Baby: La LAAAaAaAaAaAaAAAAA
Come on, mama! sing!

Me: Twinkle twinkle little staaarrr <singing>

Baby: Twiiinkle Staaarrr
Go 'head! sing! Come on! sing!

(better than screaming; now he knows he's got your attention cause the two of you are interacting together. get the picture?).

So you can be, for example, in another room sometimes, and try to get them to stop screaming that way, and calm them down. Works with my bird. Try it.

[Maria]

However, I don't think those full spectrum lights are any substitute for taking parrots outside in sunshine (in suitable temperature). They just get this glow around them, fresh smell, and complete thrill. Then coming back inside they are exhausted and just want to sit in their cages and relax. It's an experience.

Michael, this is very interesting, and I just started barely learning how important it is also for them to get sunlight, there's a bunch of great different reasons and benefits, including nutrition (Vitamin D3). And in the hot summers we get here in Texas (over past two years it's gotten over a hundred especially), if you keep them out for longer than 10 minutes, they can get overheated and sick, but that 10 minutes will be so good for them.

Now also with what you said, I'm wondering why they get exhausted as you say, from being outside?

I know that with indoor born and raised birds, at first they're afraid of the outside, and you have to get them use to it, and then they like it. And I've recently been learning about, once you get them familiar with their surroundings outside, then if they do happen to fly away, they will have the sense of direction to find and fly their way back to you. It's the clipped winged ones which would not have that advantage, because they can not fly, so they can't get themselves back to you very well.

This contradicts what I had learned previously, in that, make sure your bird does not get outside, like if they happen to fly away, they have no sense of direction, so they won't be able to find their way back to you. Well sure! If you haven't gotten them familiar with the surroundings outside, and in relation to where your home is, how can they gain that sense of direction, in order to find their way back! duuuhhh !! What's your take on this michael.

I think it's a another whole happy world, to start my bird outside on my porch with me, in his large comfortable travel cage I bought him . Part of our quality time. And he'll be getting use to the outdoors that way. But right now he's scared of it and all the noises, but he has been slowly coming around, and likes to hear and watch the other birds . I'll give him treats and drink my coffee and we'll do bird watching and talk

Really definately don't think I would be into harnassing my parrot. I've also noticed that video on youtube, there's one about harnass training without force, with treats; that would sure take a long time LOL. Tell me what you know about the Aviator Harness, Michael? I know it's something they don't like, but get use to, etc. My thing is I don't want to try to force him into something he won't like and won't feel comfortable in. And the owner of the parrot shop says do not put those leashes on their feet, which are made for that, because those are not good, because the parrot could break or fracture a leg or foot if he falls or tries to take off. So I would not use one of those kinds.

My other thought about the spectrum lights is why spend money on these lightings, when you can take your bird out for healthy, natural sunlight, or leave the blinds partially open so that he can get some natural sunlight.

And Michael, how often would you recommend to take the birds outside? Everyday? Or "at least" two or three times a week?

I'm also noticing that my bird does seem more "enriched" in behavior, since I've started giving him some natural sunlight by using the window!

[Maria]

I hadnt thought about the bird lamps being harmful for their eyes, I was told they werent, but that reptile lamps (which are stronger and brighter) were.

CML:
I was directly reading about this in the packaging, in Petco just yesterday, on the package insert, warnings, and instructions, for one of these bulbs; and the bulb looked just like yours. It even showed a picture of a bird cage, with bird inside it, with the floor lamp as an illustration, as it was saying this in the insert. Don't take a chance. It was in the bird supplies section. It said full spectrum light on it, and had picture(s) of birds right on the box. In the box is another insert regarding for reptiles. Be very careful.

I'm glad you fixed the bulb up the way you did for the meantime.

My cage has a ceiling too, considering I don't take out the tray from the play top. If I take the tray out, its bars, so I could take the tray out and have the light hanging above the cage if I wanted. In the mean time, rather than bothering with all this, and until I get the set up that I want, and continue researching a bit about these lights, etc., I'll just take him outside, and use the window option. If you use the sunny window, be careful in the summer to set your thermostat for your a/c at a temperature so that they won't get overheated while you're away at work, and open blinds so that the sun doesn't directly hit them, but is blocked in a way which still lets some of those healthy sun rays in. Near a hot sunny window it gets hotter, and it will get hotter in that room too. So you have to regulate that. They still have to be able to be at a comfortable temperature, not too hot, not too cold (for winter time).

[Michael]

Michael, this is very interesting, and I just started barely learning how important it is also for them to get sunlight, there's a bunch of great different reasons and benefits, including nutrition (Vitamin D3). And in the hot summers we get here in Texas (over past two years it's gotten over a hundred especially), if you keep them out for longer than 10 minutes, they can get overheated and sick, but that 10 minutes will be so good for them.

Now also with what you said, I'm wondering why they get exhausted as you say, from being outside?

If it's really hot outside, drench them with water. It provides cooling and they enjoy it. If it's insanely hot, keep them out of direct sun. I think a properly acclimated parrot can spend all day outside in 100F weather as long as they are provided shade and water.

Mine get exhausted because I fly them outside. I bring treats and make them fly recalls. Also just the excitement/attention of being outside wears them out. Think about it, even without major physical excretion, exciting situations can wear us out. It's similar with them. They work up an appetite and are happy to retreat to their cage to rest.

I know that with indoor born and raised birds, at first they're afraid of the outside, and you have to get them use to it, and then they like it. And I've recently been learning about, once you get them familiar with their surroundings outside, then if they do happen to fly away, they will have the sense of direction to find and fly their way back to you. It's the clipped winged ones which would not have that advantage, because they can not fly, so they can't get themselves back to you very well.

This contradicts what I had learned previously, in that, make sure your bird does not get outside, like if they happen to fly away, they have no sense of direction, so they won't be able to find their way back to you. Well sure! If you haven't gotten them familiar with the surroundings outside, and in relation to where your home is, how can they gain that sense of direction, in order to find their way back! duuuhhh !! What's your take on this michael.

Yup. Ideally, a lot of time should be spent on some good perching location right outside the home so the birds would ideally find their way back to it. Nothing suitable in front of my building but the park is nearby. So I figure if they ever got out, the park is one likely place they would go. Still, I wouldn't trust them not to get lost in someone else's yard. It doesn't take long to get into uncharted territory and get lost when flying at that kind of speed.

Really definately don't think I would be into harnassing my parrot. I've also noticed that video on youtube, there's one about harnass training without force, with treats; that would sure take a long time LOL. Tell me what you know about the Aviator Harness, Michael? I know it's something they don't like, but get use to, etc. My thing is I don't want to try to force him into something he won't like and won't feel comfortable in. And the owner of the parrot shop says do not put those leashes on their feet, which are made for that, because those are not good, because the parrot could break or fracture a leg or foot if he falls or tries to take off. So I would not use one of those kinds.

Why not? I taught Kili to wear her harness using positive and negative reinforcement in just 3 days. I won't lie, they don't like the harnesses. They chew and tug on them. But they tolerate them and they do let me put them on. They could fly away (and have before I trained them) if they refuse to put it on. The point of the training is to teach them that they have a choice but to make it so they would choose to put it on

My other thought about the spectrum lights is why spend money on these lightings, when you can take your bird out for healthy, natural sunlight, or leave the blinds partially open so that he can get some natural sunlight.

Windows block UV and the intensity. So for all intents and purposes, sunlight through windows is useless for the benefits of sunlight. Probably still lights the room up in a better way for their vision though.

And Michael, how often would you recommend to take the birds outside? Everyday? Or "at least" two or three times a week?

I like to take them out whenever I can and more is great. From what I've heard 15 minutes a week outside in direct sunlight is the minimum they need for proper Vitamin D and Calcium processing. I took mine to the park already 3 times this week. Since I can't take them outside for most of the winter, I take every opportunity in the spring/fall. Summer can be too hot sometimes and I don't feel like it and they are too hot to fly.

[cml]

I hadnt thought about the bird lamps being harmful for their eyes, I was told they werent, but that reptile lamps (which are stronger and brighter) were.

CML:
I was directly reading about this in the packaging, in Petco just yesterday, on the package insert, warnings, and instructions, for one of these bulbs; and the bulb looked just like yours. It even showed a picture of a bird cage, with bird inside it, with the floor lamp as an illustration, as it was saying this in the insert. Don't take a chance. It was in the bird supplies section. It said full spectrum light on it, and had picture(s) of birds right on the box. In the box is another insert regarding for reptiles. Be very careful.

I'm glad you fixed the bulb up the way you did for the meantime.

Hmm, I built the screen as I dont want to take any chances, but there was nothing on the packaging for my bulb, its a Arcadia bird lamp, and Ive heard nothing about it.

Anyone else know differently? The screen should be enough as far as I can determine, it screens half the cage, and let the other half get hit directly by the light from the bulb.

The positive aspects of fullspectrum lighting are great so you have to weigh it against being a strong light. My reasoning is that since they can decide themselvs which part of the cage they want to hang out in, it will be fine. If anyone got anything that says im wrong, tell me =).