198 gram Senegal!!??

[SkidRowSennie]

That is correct. Actually Bibi weighs 198.44 grams. If you read my intro story, you'll find out how I rescued him and how neglected he was. He was weighed in at the vet. He has no diseases or other concerns. The vet and my local (and well-respected parrot store) say BiBi is the largest Senegal ( weight, length, head size) they have ever seen. He eats a variety of food, such as pellets, seeds, nuts, fresh fruits and veggies, and drinks plenty of water. He doesn't seem chubby, and he's very active, considering that he had clipped wings. Unfortunately, I cannot allow his wing feathers to grow out because he spends much of his day sharpening his nails to the point of being needle-sharp and plotting how he can kill my husband. He is a rescue, and is terrified of men, and he has attacked my husband with no provocation with amazing swiftness. He has also attacked my Parrotlet and has tried to attack our Pineapple Conure, so for the safety of others, he must remain clipped. I know flight would be the best exercise, but it just isn't feasible.

He LOVES pine nuts, pistacios... Any kind of nut so I reserve those for treats, but he can eat 10-15 pine nuts in rapid succession, and I have a hard time refusing him when he says, "yum-yums?" and I say, "No more, BiBi", and he clucks his tongue and says,"Co
E here!"

So, I'm torn here. He's a large bird. He's quite a talker- says over 30 words/ phrases and KNOWS when to say them, and they are clearly understandable even to strangers, which is uncommon with Senegals. Is he a freak of nature, or is he truly overweight? I am still trying to figure out how to share a photo so you can see how big he is! He dwarfs every Sennie I've ever seen.

[Michael]

He must naturally be a very large Sennie but likely chubby as well. The males are often a bit larger than the females as well. Kili is 132g and the vet said she's too pudgy and needs to come down 10 grams and she's flighted!

You really gotta stop giving such fatty treats though! It's bad enough that the bird doesn't fly, to be giving that kind of diet makes it even worse. With Senegal Parrots I think food management (reduction from free feed) is quite important. They seem to really enjoy eating and will eat practically anything. But too much calories/nutrition is not only unhealthy but also breeds aggression and hormonal behavior. You gotta be careful what you do with a rescue but it's probably a good idea to slowly work him down a bit.

[SkidRowSennie]

Ahhh!!! Advice from Kili's dad! I have watched so many of your videos on YouTube! Amazing! Ok, so if I remove the fatty foods, should I only give him fresh fruits and veggies in his cage and hand feed him his other food? He usually spends about 4 hours per day being with me, meaning he's on my shoulder or chilling with me.

[Michael]

Post a list of exactly what you're feeding him and approximate amount (by percent of daily intake or in grams). The vet first suggested cutting down Kili's fatty treats (nuts/seeds) but it's already such a small part of her intake, I hate to deprive her of that. So I'm cutting down her pellets and using that hunger motivation to make her fly more instead.

[SkidRowSennie]

Well, Michael, I have to confess that I have not kept track of the exact amount of food BiBi eats while in his cage. I keep it replenished. It consists of a variety of things, but this is what he picks out of it and eats:
Whole grain Pasta
Safflower seeds
Dried fruits
Pellets
Star Anise
Cinnamon Stick
Millet ( parrot Pringles, LOL)
Small dark triangular seeds that I don't know the name of

Also in his cage is a daily variety of fresh fruits and veggies, such as apples, bananas, carrots, Romaine, bell peppers, mango

BiBi is chillin with me right now, and instead of nuts, I gave him hearts of Romaine lettuce ( he loves to chew the water out of them, and, hey- zero calories!) and he got a tiny piece of whole grain pita bread. He keeps asking me for "yum-yums" which means nuts, but I keep telling him I don't have any. He's "frisking" me like a cop looking for a stash of pine nuts! He even looked up my nose!

I'm currently soaking some dried peas, corn, and wild grass seeds, and I'm going to bake some birdie bread.

I have a puzzle toy and I have stashed his pine nuts and other treasured treats. He never took much interest in solving the puzzle because I always give him treats, so hopefully this will spark his interest! I am also bringing him to "Omar's" today to be weighed and to buy whatever you suggest if you get back to me. I'm sure you've heard of Omar's. They are in Southern California, but are well-known throughout the country. They will have whatever you recommend.

Thank you for your concern about my Sennie, Michael. I truly appreciate it, and even though old habits die hard, I am committed to getting BiBi on a plan that will keep him healthy and with me for many years to come. I know it's going to be hard for me to resist his clever and cute requests for yum-yums ( how can I resist when I tell him "no more" and he actually cocks his head, clucks his tongue at me and says, "come here!". He will probably screech at me in outrage when his steady supply of fatty foods are replaced with healthier choices, but I want him to be healthy. I don't let my children just eat whatever they want, because I am responsible for their nutrition and health. I must resolve myself to doing the same for BiBi. Our other birds are at their target weight ( both flighted) but I have always indulged Bibi because I can't get the memory out of my head of him in that rusty dog kennel with nothing but grocery store commercial bird seed.

[marie83]

BiBi is chillin with me right now, and instead of nuts, I gave him hearts of Romaine lettuce ( he loves to chew the water out of them, and, hey- zero calories!) and he got a tiny piece of whole grain pita bread. He keeps asking me for "yum-yums" which means nuts, but I keep telling him I don't have any. He's "frisking" me like a cop looking for a stash of pine nuts! He even looked up my nose!

That made me laugh so much. Ollies the same if he think I've got sunflower seeds...

[Wayne361]

Just had to add that my Sennie Oscar says the same thing when he wants treats (sunflower seeds)..."yum yums"....I seldom give him sunflower seeds due to the fat content and usually reserve them for training (in small quanties). I will say "no yum yums"....he will say "yum yums".... I will say "no yum yums"...then Oscar says "Hey buddy" LOL....the charm doesnt work with me but it is comical.
To maybe add something to the thread I find that I get way better acceptance of things Oscar is not too fond of when he is hungry....namely carrots and kale (although he readily likes the kale stalks). I have yet to weigh Oscar but he is also a larger Sennie. I will see if I can weigh him soon and get back to you soon...one thing i know is that Kili looks very small in comparison in the vids I have seen.

Wayne

[Michael]

Well, Michael, I have to confess that I have not kept track of the exact amount of food BiBi eats while in his cage. I keep it replenished. It consists of a variety of things, but this is what he picks out of it and eats:
Whole grain Pasta
Safflower seeds
Dried fruits
Pellets
Star Anise
Cinnamon Stick
Millet ( parrot Pringles, LOL)
Small dark triangular seeds that I don't know the name of

Also in his cage is a daily variety of fresh fruits and veggies, such as apples, bananas, carrots, Romaine, bell peppers, mango

Wow! It's no wonder he's so fat! You can't just feed them anything and everything all day long. It's not natural and nor is it healthy. In the wild exist natural constraints on diet and their bodies are adapted for these. Basically they have the mentality to eat whatever is available starting with the highest calorie foods first (cause things like seeds and fruits are only available seasonally and there is high competition for them so in limited quantity). In nature this shuts off when those resources are depleted. At home they are available in abundance non-stop. That is the beginning of many problems.

I don't know what the healthy weight for your parrot should be but let me just say that if my flighted Senegal Parrot that is on a twice daily controlled diet with very restricted "junk food" is being called pudgy by the vet, then yours being clipped and overfed is probably WAY overweight. Even for Truman who is fully flighted (and same feeding restrictions) and active the vet said not to let him get any heavier. This is understandable. Although they are flighted, they are only out for a few hours a day and they are only flying for a fraction of that time. So if even flighted parrots require restriction to their food intake, then clipped parrots especially do!

The vet suggested foraging but I don't support it. Foraging is great for reducing boredom and encouraging play but it does nothing for regulating diet. Either the foraging ends up too difficult and the parrot gives up and ends up starved. Or the foraging is too easy (or becomes too easy as the parrot learns) that it ends up eating too much anyway. The portions end up not being regulated. The exercise tradeoff of ripping open toys or climbing around the cage do not even come close to match the excess calories gained. The only possible foraging that I could imagine being calorie neutral is foraging opportunities around the entire house requiring a lot of flight between them.

So basically it only leaves food management as a dietary tool for parrot owners. You gotta give less. Way less. Just enough.

[marie83]

I disagree with what Michael said there about the foraging. I believe foraging is a good thing and it can be controlled within reason. My two get a portion of their daily food allowence split up into foraging toys. They get their morning meal and a ration of food put into foraging toys and anything they haven't touched in the toys goes in towards their evening meal or used for training treats depending on what food it is. Yes it makes monitoring intake slightly harder but to me its worth the extra effort it takes.

[SkidRowSennie]

Everyone, thanks for the laughs, it's funny there's another Sennie out there that asks for yum yums!

Michael, you're right. I know in the wild they spend about 50% of the day foraging for food and the rest of the time socializing and sleeping. In captivity, I've taken away what would have consumed half of his day. I know all this, but knowing and not doing will hurt BiBi in the end. This stops TODAY. I am taking him to Omar's now and I'll post an update later. Thanks for being assertive and direct. That's why I joined the forum. I need support and encouragement so I can follow through on this. Many thanks!