Not again :(

[marie83]

Urghh, well I wasn't expecting it to be swimming in formalin but I was really suprised both times at how little was provided but the other day I was wondering if that was why it came back negative. That said the vet said the new method is to test the poop for anti-gen now so it shouldn't matter, I think he only went with providing formalin because I kept mentioning it.

[Andromeda]

Urghh, well I wasn't expecting it to be swimming in formalin but I was really suprised both times at how little was provided but the other day I was wondering if that was why it came back negative. That said the vet said the new method is to test the poop for anti-gen now so it shouldn't matter, I think he only went with providing formalin because I kept mentioning it.

It is possible there wasn't enough formalin to preserve the sample.

Regarding testing for the antigen: would that be the IFA? You vet would know better than I would but from my understanding the fecal trichrome (which tests for the parasite) is widely considered to be the most accurate as birds that have tested negative using other methods (IFA and ELISA) have later tested positive on a fecal trichrome.

[marie83]

Well last night was a really bad night for us I got him out the cage very briefly and checked under his wings again, they are the worst I have seen them now, all open and bleeding so I went to bed but I ended up getting up going to Ollie his screams were that loud and almost constant. I wouldn't normally do this but by 2am I had had enough, Iwas imagining all sorts and was scared the neighbours would make a complaint. I put him in his carrier and brought him into the bedroom with us hoping that the change of environment and being near us would distract him from whatever was causing so much distress. Needless to say this didn't work and he ended up going back in the living room as our bedrooms obviously directly aligned with the neighbours...
Its now almost 7:30am and I don't think he slept last night, I know my partner and I didn't and he is still doing the screaming and attacking himself now

I just hope to god I haven't reinforced the behaviour by going to him but honestly I was having visions of him picking craters in himself the way he was going on.

[Eurycerus]

That is heart breaking! I would be so helpless and flustered. Your poor little guy... I can't believe that they can't figure out what he has... After reading your story and others on here I'm really skeptical about vets now...

[marie83]

Well have to say I cried alot last night after I returned Ollie to the living room and going back to bed, every scream he did made me cry more. I'm praying these flipping test results come back tomorrow.

I'm going to press on with the giardia treatment anyway whatever the results say, I didn't want to give meds unless we knew the cause but if theres a chance it is that then its at the point where its got to be done but if we never have a positive diagnosis then how will we know its gone and this wont happen again in a few months?

I'm also going to have to look into preventative measures as well now he is picking holes in his skin too, I really didn't want to go down that road unless I absolutely had to but what else can I do?

What can I get thats suitable for a bird so small?

The vet mentioned a vest a while ago but I said I wasn't willing to go that route back then but obviously things have changed. I dont like the thought of putting a collar around such a small neck and I know pennyandrocky is using scrunchies for her bird but they are too big.

What if I'm wrong and this is a psychological thing caused by me? I don't really see much else I can do differently, we train him, avoid giving him too much in the way of scratches and stuff, he has loads of varied stuff to do, loads of out time, nothing which may obviously stress him out like a dog, loud noises from builders etc...

[pionus]

Oh marie, I'm so sorry! this has been going on for so long. I hope you figure out what is behind all of it and that Ollie feels better soon.

All the best.

[janetafloat]

It's just dreadful hearing about Ollie going through all this and how much it's distressing you, I can only imagine You mustn't blame yourself, you couldn't be a more caring & knowledgeable parront.

[Andromeda]

Well have to say I cried alot last night after I returned Ollie to the living room and going back to bed, every scream he did made me cry more.

I'm so sorry, Marie. It's really hard for me to hear about Ollie's suffering and I'm not even there to witness it. I can only imagine how difficult it is to hear him screaming and see his self-inflicted wounds.

I'm going to press on with the giardia treatment anyway whatever the results say, I didn't want to give meds unless we knew the cause but if theres a chance it is that then its at the point where its got to be done but if we never have a positive diagnosis then how will we know its gone and this wont happen again in a few months?

If the tests come back negative but you treat for it, anyway, there's no guarantee of anything but at least it's something to try because it's been going on for so long. When Jimmy was sick I didn't want to give meds without knowing the cause, either, but after several months of testing with no answers I tried a couple different medications in hopes that he would get better.

What can I get thats suitable for a bird so small?

The vet mentioned a vest a while ago but I said I wasn't willing to go that route back then but obviously things have changed.

A green cheek is so small I'm not sure what can be done. When Jimmy was plucking the vet said it would be possible to collar him but a brown headed parrot is larger. A collar is very stressful and the vet said in her opinion it wasn't worth the stress for just plucking but if Ollie has open wounds it might be necessary, unfortunately.

If he is chewing the skin under his wings would a vest even help? Aren't there openings on the side for their wings?

I mentioned this in another thread about feather chewing but you might want to try Soother Spray. My vet recommended it but you can talk to your vet if you are unsure. If he's chewing because his skin is itchy and irritated it might help because it can offer relief from itching. It also helps wounds heal faster in cases of self-mutilation and provides pain relief. There is also Soother Plus Cream which is the same formula, but in a cream. The cream might be more useful for his wounds because you can apply it directly to the affected area.

There is also a product called Booster which is made from organic red palm fruit. It has been documented to help some feather picking and self-mutilating birds and helps boost their immune system. There is also Booster Concentrate but I would definitely talk to your vet before administering that. However it might be something to try before you try medication.

If you want to see some actual results on birds check out this page. There are graphic images but having seen Ollie's self-mutilation in person I'm sure it's nothing new. Mind you that site specifically promotes and sells Harrison's products and so do the vets but the cases are real.

Just some less-invasive ideas that you could try before a collar or a vest (which is stressful).

What if I'm wrong and this is a psychological thing caused by me?

It's not anything you're doing. You take very good care of your birds. If it were just Ollie I'd say maybe it's psychological (not your fault) but since Harlie has displayed symptoms as well it must either be something physical and contagious or something in the environment, although I don't know what environmental issue would be causing it.

[Baylee4ever]

Its not your fault... There is something going on and the only way to see If giardia is gone will be the symptons, If they disappear then problem is gone! Thats one of the reasons why my vet said its important to deworm birds to avoid giardia... Giardia treatment is to deworm the bird 0.1 cc (for tiels) every 30 days. Well at first it is 3 days of treatment then is every 30 days...in Baylee's case was just worms (not giardia) but vet wants to be careful so i deworm her every month but i only give her 1 drop.

I think it is giardia.... Also giardia could had come with any bird... Giardia can be "asleep" for as long as 30 years.

Read this! http://www.exoticpetvet.net/avian/giardia.html its very informative about what to do with the giardia and how to treat and all that!

[Baylee4ever]

http://www.greenandhealthy.info/giardia.html another link...sorry for the double post...