Not again :(

[Pajarita]

I've never seen or heard of polyfolliculitis been so extensive, it's usually in a specific area and not all over the place. Have they been tested for PBFD? Tiels can get a milder version of it and live with it for years as well as overcome it on their own...

[marie83]

Yes I think so. There's a summary of tests carried out to date a page or 2 back. I was going to pm you when I was back at my computer to ask if you would be able to spare some time to go through this thread as I know you are quite knowledgeable about these things. Any help you could provide would be gratefully received. The only test I haven't had carried out on them yet that's been suggested is a skin tipsy. Thanks

[Pajarita]

Yes, you did. I went back and saw it -I had missed it the first time I went through the thread. I really don't know what to tell you... have you tried boosting up the immune system?

[marie83]

Yes, you did. I went back and saw it -I had missed it the first time I went through the thread. I really don't know what to tell you... have you tried boosting up the immune system?

Thank you for going through the posts, I appreciate there is a lot of reading here. when you say boosting up the immune system how would you go about it? I have made various improvements with Ollies diet but if you can give specific advice that would be helpful, Harlies a pain though she is an insanely fussy eater even when very very hungry but that doesn't stop me trying.
If these were your birds would you attempt the skin biopsy? (sorry the predictive in my phone turned biopsy into tipsy on prev post). Its something I'm reluctant to do it but if its something you felt may be appropriate I'll certainly take your opinion into account and do further research.

[Pajarita]

I would do the biopsy (I figured that was what you wanted to say -LOL) but I would wait until I exhausted all other options and what I would do next is change the diet to eliminate all potential sources of allergy or food intolerance. If that doesn't work, I would boost the immune system (but leave that for last because if the bird has even the mildest form of an auto-immune problem, boosting the system makes it worse so it needs to be done VERY carefully and under A LOT of observation).

Nobody knows if parrots actually do get allergies but, personally, whenever I have a situation like yours, I try anything! If somebody tells me that standing on one foot and jumping up and down with the bird in my arms does it while I whistle Dixie would help, I'd do it! LOL

I would start by eliminating all soy, peanuts and gluten from the diet so if she is on pellets, forget it, you'll need to feed her gloop or chop or whatever you wanna call it. Use millet, quinoa, brown rice, sorghum (aka milo or megamillet), teff, flax seeds, chick peas, almonds, etc. There is gluten-free everything nowadays, even pasta, so it's just a matter of looking. I would not use buckwheat even though it is gluten free because although my male sennie only started plucking after his second mate died (he lost two mates in two years, the poor thing!), I couldn't make him stop until I eliminated the toasted buckwheat from the gloop. It might have been just coincidence but, ever since I stopped, he has started letting his feathers grow and no longer has this itching he seemed to have before. Check thoroughly all commercial treats and human foods you feed her because soy is everywhere nowadays even though it's considered one of the worst allergens.

You won't see any results immediately, you are supposed to wait 8 weeks to see the final results with any change in diet because of allergy (I have dogs with terrible food allergies) so keep on doing it and see what happens.

[marie83]

Well tbh the vet did consider allergies at one time but if its diet related then why would it run in a 3 month cycle? though as I said before that could be coincidence but both birds on a 3 month cycle would be very very strange I should think? Also the bloods don't show an elevated WBC which I've heard you would expect with allergies.
I'll look in to altering their diet again anyway. Thank you.

[Pajarita]

Actually, celiac disease which is an inability to digest gluten will cause low white blood cell count and allergies don't necessarily show symptoms all the time. My sister in law breaks out in the most god-awful swollen, red patches all over her body but she doesn't have them all the time, she spends months and months without them and, one day, they are there! And she has been tested for a million different things and they still cannot find what is causing them...

[janetafloat]

I am a coeliac - it's an auto immune disease which can only be definitively diagnosed in humans by a biopsy of the intestine, and it's not an inability to digest gluten, it's a heightened immune response which causes the body to turn on itself & destroy the lining of the intestines which in itself significantly reduces the absorption of nutrients. Sorry if you already know all this, just saying. It's highly unlikely that both birds have it, if birds suffer from it at all?

[Pajarita]

Yes, I know that celiac disease is an autoimmune condition. I was just simplifying the problem because saying that the enzyme that is supposed to bind with certain amino acids found in gluten proteins in order for them to be digested becomes, instead, an autoantigen due to a genetic predisposition is too complicated -LOL

I thought it was only one bird that had the problem and that the other one had something similar but is now fine.

But, if it's both of them, it's most likely environmental.

[marie83]

Both the vet and I cannot figure out any environmental issues he gave me a massive questionnaire and went through pretty much everything with me. The vet thought I was doing everything right. Of course that doesn't mean to say we haven't missed something but im at a loss to think what.