Need some food suggestions--high calorie, low fat & protein

[Grey_Moon]

I've seemed to hit the sweet spot with Jacko's fat/protein levels, but am thinking she needs a bit more calories to put some weight on (she's steadily built nice firm muscle on either side of her keel--but its still more prominent than I would like).

She lost a lot of body condition when she had the pretty bad sinus infection that no one caught on to right away (in that her 'numbers' weight-wise were still good---but lost muscle). A few months later and she's made a pretty good recovery. Not 100%--but since I'm not sure on exactly how long she was battling the sinus infection (it was 5 different bacteria at once and required 3 weeks of meds) I'm pleased with her progress.

The catch is I've found the biggest portion she'll eat in a day. I can't just offer her more food because if I offer her any more food and she wastes %50 of it or is picky at other meals. I don't simply want to add more fat/protein because as it stands she's eating 1/4 large egg and 1 tsp nut butter a week (in addition to the 12% protein in the pellets that are the flour for her bread) and that seems to be the cut off (no excessive beak/nail growth).

So far, I'm seeing what I *think* are encouraging signs---she's having her first really good normal moult (she was a chronic slow/poor moulter---now there's plenty of feathers coming off ), she's resting more and putting on muscle mass/growing new (NON-DISCOLOURED!!!) feathers--which to me suggests she's healing.

Also---really cool change: looking through my old photos of her (plus people's comments who haven't seen her in a while)---she used to be a really pale grey with brown feathers, brown-ish tail and flaky feet--her beak was chipped/flaky too. Now? She's slowly gotten darker and very glossy---she's grey-black now with nice grey-brown feet and a strong smooth beak---her tailfeathers are a rich-red---sometimes blood red

Just need to do some tweaking to the ingredient list of her diet---anyone have any high-calorie, but low-fat and low-protein foods I could add to her bread or her veggie mash?

By the way---just in case anyone is worried: I know that I could be misinterpreting signs---that she could be beginning to be ill, stress/malnutrition moulting. She's going for bloodwork to check her organ function and nutrient levels in the fall. Of course---if something starts going very very wrong she'll be in the vet's office ASAP---but I've got a close eye on her poop and everything looks ok. The other thing is she wants to stay up late with us but also likes to get up early---so its less alarming to me if she wants to nap on and off all morning and afternoon after breakfast till dinner time---say 9 AM-4PM because I know she won't get to sleep till 10:30 or so and then gets up at at about 5:30. But she's been doing this for a while---and she's passed all vet inspection since her sinuses cleared up (keeping in mind my vet sees her about ever 9 weeks or so for her nails).

[Eurycerus]

I have no help to give but:

I was wondering if you could link me to or provide information on how to provide a more balanced parrot diet. My Senegal is looking a bit healthier since I got her now that vegetables are a part of her meal twice a day along with pellets. She was on a pellet only diet with a grab bag of parrot treats/seed during the day from the lady I got her from. Her beak is flakey (but less so! yay!) and she's very dandruffy still. I bought a shower perch which is in the mail and then hopefully she can come and shower with me once she warms up to the idea. I am pretty sure that she needs a more rounded diet to help with the beak problem though. :/

[Grey_Moon]

My big sources of info were the mods and people on two Yahoo groups.

-Feeding Feathers (this has a handy guide for creating Shauna's mash as well as feeding a balanced fresh food diet and notes on supplements to ensure balance)
-HolisticBird

Holisticbird also has two websites ( HolisticBirds.com and holisticbird.org) that offer a lot of info as well. Unfortunately the rest of it is a lot of random websites and researching about a) the particular diet and evolutionary niche of your parrot b) general parrot nutrition and c) alternative or holistic thoughts on nutrition and diet for birds while being able to pick the good out of the bad and use your own reasoning.

As is with anything that is not the cut and dried 'expert recommended' which has tons of mass-produced and 'scientifically-proven' instructions and guides it takes a bit of faith and a bit of tweaking to get it right. You also need to tweak the diet to your bird's needs & quirks as well as your environment.

For me that meant eschewing the (sometimes sprouted, sometimes cooked) grain & bean mix in favour of a birdie bread using TOPS pellets for example.


My base diet consists of (and this is balanced as far as I know)

Morning:
Tops birdie bread recipe (the egg and nut butter provides protein---the egg yolk has D3)

Evening:
-Veggie & fruit mash (base formula is 1+ orange veggies, 2+ leafy greens, 2+ other veggies, 2+ fruits)

Evening supplements:
1/16th tsp Avigreens (necessary contains wheat grass, alfalfa, barley grass, spirulina and chlorella)
1/4 tsp Avi-Immune (contains DMG---not a necessary supplement but helps Jacko with her issues)
Sprinkle of probiotics (not strictly needed---but recommended)
1/4 tsp whole flax seeds (necessary for Omega-3)
1/4 tsp bee pollen (not necessary---but good sources of energy, B vitamins etc)


When doing this diet IT IS VERY IMPORTANT NOT TO TREAT IT AS COOKIE-CUTTER---IT IS ALSO IMPORTANT NOT TO OMIT/NEGLECT COMPONENTS!

Thus---your bird may require less of something and more of something else. A chunky Amazon parrot would not benefit from a veggie/fruit mix containing high-calorie, starchy or sugary fruit instead a mix for the bird would implement more fresh greens and low-sugar fruit. An underweight, sick or older bird would benefit from the opposite diet---with plenty of carrots, yams, squash, bananas and papayas. A bird with liver issues can have dandelion and other liver-aiding ingredients and a lower-fat diet.

The other EXTREMELY IMPORTANT thing is to remember that medical supervision is crucial to, as is knowing signs of malnutrition or ill-health in your bird. Bloodwork should be done to track nutrients and organ function, droppings and weight monitored. It does take a bit of supervision, tweaking and careful management of the diet to do it properly---but your bird should enjoy better health.

Its just YMMV (your mileage may vary).

PS on this diet magnesium, calcium and D3 intake must be assured---as most pelleted diets have artificial sources of these added to appropriate level---DIY diets do not. Also---fresh diets can be extremely high in phosphorus (which leeches/inhibits calcium) so offering calcium sources regularly and providing UV lights/outdoor access is important for D3 as well as dietary sources n supplements.

Good luck

[Eurycerus]

Thank you so much for taking the time to respond! I am definitely going to start working on heading towards a healthier little parrot. I was curious about the bee pollen. On a parrot recipe web site I saw it and was rather confused. I need to do that birdie bread, it sounds great. She already gets vegetables but I need to expand the repertoire of vegetables that she actually likes and add a sprinkling of fruits as well. I want her to be happy and healthy.

[marie83]

How about wholegrain pasta and rice? Those tend to fairly high in calories without excessive amounts of fat and protien.

Roughly for the pasta per 100g dry weight
Calories (kcal) 316
Protein (g) 12.7
Carbohydrate (g) 61.9
Sugars (g) 4
Fat (g) 2
Saturates (g) 0.4
Fibre (g) 10
Sodium (g) 0.1

And the rice per 100g dry weight

Calories (kcal) 344
Protein (g) 7.4
Carbohydrate (g) 71.6
Sugars (g) 0.8
Fat (g) 2.9
Saturates (g) 0.8
Fibre (g) 3
Sodium (g) 0


Obviously you need to work out portion sizes and see if they fit into whatever nutritional ratios you are wanting to feed. You should be able to get organic from a health food shop with no problems. Different brands may have slightly different nutritional info on the packets though, particuarly the pasta.

[Grey_Moon]

Eurycerus, no problem I enjoy sharing what I am learning and discovering!

Thanks Marie!


Maybe I'll add some sort of flour added to the veggie mash or some sweet potato added to the bread. Some extra rice would be helpful too. I might even try white potato or plantain.
Pasta I'd have to cook n puree into either the bread or the veggie mash---because if its separate whole morsels of food she picks them out.