Pelleted food vs. Seed Mix +variety

[ishael]

In doing research on food for birds, I've come across a dilemma: is there a difference between feeding pelleted food (such a Harrisons) and feeding seed + a variety of fresh foods (eg: leafy greens, veggies, fruit, cooked eggs, etc.) Do they have a different nutritional value?
I feed my dogs the best kibble I can afford; however that kibble comes from a pet store that sells a variety of very good and very bad foods. In the bird department, all of the foods overall, well, stink. However some of them do contain necessary ingredients for birds (in my case, a future budgie) with the exception of some of the seeds which would never occur in a natural budgie diet and food-colouring.
So the real problem for me is, do I go out of my way to go to an avian clinic that sells Harrison pelleted food for one budgie, or do I go with an OK seed diet from the pet store and supplement with fruits, grains, veggies, and proteins? Its more a matter of convenience for me, since I work at a pet supply store (which believe me I am certainly not proud of) and could pick up my food not only at a slight discount but with my dogs food at one place.
Thanks in advance for your opinions!

[Michael]

Yes, there is a huge difference. And it is that parrots are extremely picky and will eat foods in their order of preference. So if you put healthy and unhealthy foods in front of them, they'll garble the unhealthy ones they like and miss the nutrition of the healthy ones. Pellets mix it all together so they are forced to eat it all. That said, for budgies and cockatiels it is still advisable to feed a 50-70% seed diet with pellets, vegetables, and other foods on the side as choice.

[Grey_Moon]

Unfortunately you're NOT going to get one simple answer.

I don't believe that pellets are good.
I also though, don't approve of the seed with veggies route either.

Michael is right in that most parrots (especially if not weaned onto a diet with variety) will be picky and that pellets, in the theory avoid that issue because its all ground up together.

Now, there are two things keep in mind:

1) We DO NOT know the exact nutritional requirements of parrots as a whole, let alone species let alone individuals---our best guesses come from the poultry industry and the needs of chickens is what our pellets are based on some 30 years ago.
2) Artificial anything is not absorbed by the body as well as natural sources and that our artificial equivalents to certain substances can be incomplete, malabsorbed or downright toxic.

I choose to feed a completely natural, whole diet. I've seen better results and health from it than from any other diet. In 6 months of fresh diet she's changed more than she had in 8 years on pellets.

Even if we're going to treat pellets as a high quality multivitamin---a person eating meal replacement bars will be healthier than someone living off chocolate---but does that make a meal replacement bars optimal? No.
As for feeding it as the majority of the diet---most pellets are corn, soy, wheat, peanuts, sunflower seeds ground up with vitamin powders. If you ate 75% of only 3-5 foods over and over again would you be healthy? Also consider many common ingredients used in pellets have proven to be allergens.

There is a huge nutritional difference between grains and legumes vs seeds.
Jacko gets a few carefully selected seeds---but she doesn't get a cheap pet store mix (especially because most of these seeds are sunflower, oat groats, millet, canary seed etc---plug that into a nutritional analyzer--its not impressive).

I would be one to pick a carefully done and prepared fresh diet.
But the choice is ultimately up to you. I would rather see a parrot eat some pellets and many fresh fruits and veggies than a seed mix plus veggies personally.

Regardless of what base you pick, I am a strong believer in a diet that is %50 veggies and fruits.

I can say that Jacko eats, on a given day 27 different foods in addition to whatever I share with her. The veggie/fruit component changes every few months when I make a new batch.

AM: "Muffin" made from amaranth, millet, quinoa, wild rice, buckwheat, lentil, garbanzo bean, pea, mung and adzuki bean flour with chia seed egg replacer.

PM: Veggie/fruit mash made from pumpkin, kale, dandelion, broccoli, peas, kiwi and pomegranate. Add to this flax seed, hemp seed, probiotics, bee pollen, alfalfa/barley/wheat grass, spirulina and chlorella.

[marie83]

Can't you order off of the internet? if not then if your going out of your way to get food then at least you wont be having to do it very often, buy enough food for a year and freeze what you wont use within a week or so. Each week get out a new batch of food from the freezer.

It works well for me and I think there are several others who use the same method or a similar one.

btw even if you feed pellets they still need fresh foods.

[pennyandrocky]

i'm kinda with jacko on this. while i do give mine pellets in the morning 95% of them end up on the floor which seems a huge waste to me.i mostly feed fresh food with a bird mash. you can find alot of recipes for the mash online.it's mostly different beans,grains,fruits and veggies you can cook ahead and freeze. alot of birds really enjoy it and it's less waste.

[Michael]

i'm kinda with jacko on this. while i do give mine pellets in the morning 95% of them end up on the floor which seems a huge waste to me

That's cause you give too much!

Mine don't waste a crumb. They eat carefully over their dishes and if anything falls in, they lick the bottom clean

[ishael]

Thank you everyone for your input! I clearly have very little idea what I'm talking about, and your direct feedback has been helpful. Bird nutrition is far different than canine nutrition, that may be why I am having so much trouble! haha

@Michael I guess that much is true; birds tend to be pickier eaters when it comes to a visible variety... And pellets probably are the way to go for a sound nutrition.

@Grey_Moon I applaud your natural diet! Its really the ideal way to go, and trust me I would jump into it any day if I had the time. (Plus, I can't believe you give your bird Chlorella! I used chlorella for a while as a health thing and its amazing stuff.) And you bring up A LOT of valid points!

@marie83 Very true! I guess that would make a big difference and would probably be the most advisable thing. However I do have a question; lets say I get a bird from somewhere (be it a breeder, a rescue place, etc.) where they are feeding a seed diet. Will the bird naturally be attracted to the pelleted stuff? Or will I have to coax it to eat pellets?
And if I were to go for a pelleted diet, I would add fruits/veggies too, just by the way. I don't think anything really supplements fresh produce, but I was unsure if it would create an imbalance in the diet if I was feeding pellets.

Thanks again for the input everyone! It has really helped.

[Grey_Moon]

I think that there's a terrible myth that feeding a diet like mine takes a lot of work/time.

It takes me 4 hours out of my Saturday....every FOUR MONTHS. Thats to puree/mix and then cook n freeze.
And this is feeding my grey---if you used the same amounts to feed your budgie...oh god lol you'd have enough food for the year in the freezer

Other than that? Takes maybe two minutes out of my day to nuke it in the microwave for a min, add the supplements and voila---meal is served.

IF you want to do a fresh diet don't let time be scaring you off---its not that time consuming.

[marie83]

Well I didn't have any problems converting my two to pellets and Harlie my 'tiel is the fussiest bird I have ever met. There are plenty who have struggled though but as with everything patience wins through. I used liz wilsons guide to converting to a pelleted diet but there are many other guides out there.

If I knew enough about bird nutrition then I would take grey moons approach for sure but whilst I am learning all the time about dietry stuff as and when I get chance but for now the best I can do for my birds is to feed a pellets as a base diet. I also feed plenty of sprouted seeds/pulse mixes and fresh veg with a little fruit, dry seed and healthy human foods like brown rice, egg, wholegrain pasta etc because they provide natural enzymes which are needed and vitamins and minerals which have not been artificially added by man.

My goal is to one day have a completely fresh diet for them but for not I do not know enough to have any trust in trying to formulate a balanced diet. So for the moment I am happy enough knowing that I have learned enough to give my current two birds a much better life than my first few parrots got, dietry wise, enrichment wise, healthcare wise etc.

There is much more to be done of course but its a case of baby steps for me. When I got my first bird I went in blind and there was reletively next to no good information out there. I had to work alot out for myself, starting with the rubbish the few books I had said (predominantly an all seed diet) and working from there. Then the internet started to become a much bigger part of our world and there was alot more ideas floating around, some of which I agreed with, others I didn't, some I had to try before deciding whether it was right for me and my birds.

There is much much more good information out there now as more is learned, make the most of it but dont get too het up on getting things perfect immediately, even for people the information is changing all the time as to what is/isnt good for us. Birds are much more of a new topic of research. All you can do is the best you can and then seek improvement.

Whatever you decide is the best you can do for now allow your bird time to settle in before attempting to change the diet.

[pennyandrocky]

i thought so too micheal but i now only put a little pellet in their dishes first thing when they wake up when they are supposed to be most hungry.still most ends up on the floor even the ones they nibble are almost whole when they drop them.then i cook for them at around 4 pm when we have dinner they either get what we're having or the mash if what we eat has somthing they're not supposed to eat.mya seems to be entertained by how far she can fling her pellets she always looks to see where they land.i've tried every kind of pellet made and it's always the same.