We're Back! Nutrition Update!

[Grey_Moon]

Hi crew!

Me and miss Jaybird are back from our little hiatus (the forum got so quiet what happened ) Getting ready to move again for a new school in the spring, oh joy.

She's doing well (aside from a pesky chronic sinus infection---hopefully the air purifier & humidifier will keep that from coming back---but given her rescue history its enirely possible she's had it forever subclinically so it might be pretty entrenched). Foot's still wonky what with the torn tendon and the bone scar from the fracture but we're looking into some herbal pain management/anti-inflammatories and acupuncture for that Girl's still scrappy and nutty as always so we're good.
STIILLLL plucking but enh, are we surprised?

So, as is/was my custom I've done some more research vis-a-vis diet and Jacko is undergoing a dietary change. I figured I'd inform you guys as the woman (who is basically a holistic avian nutritionist) has been wonderful with helping me and though I've just started the dietary regime Jacko seems to like it and is plucking less. It was nice as well to have a treatment for the calcification and heart issues instead of just 'welll....we (as vets) don't know what to tell you except wait and see'.

[marie83]

Hey grey_moon, nice to have you back.
Glad to hear Jacko is doing well, I would be very interested to hear all about the new diet and any other treatments and what they entail if you get the chance to post them.
Fingers crossed things get better for you from here on

[Grey_Moon]

Without furthur ado:

1. I've come to the conclusion that Harrisons caused the calcification. Why? Too many inflammatory grains/legumes/seeds (too much omega-6 fats amongst other things) in combination with the high fat load. I wish I had known this prior.

2. It has come to my attention that in the wild parrots DO NOT eat grains, legumes or vegetables. Thus all the cellulose, omega-6 and etc that is found in them causes issues. Most wild parrot diets are some combo of fruits, insects, grasses, herbs, seeds, grasses, clays etc. But none of the commonly recommended foodstuffs.

3. With all this in mind, why are we simply accepting disease/hormonal issues/health issues as a chronic permanent unpredictable thing rather than a symptom of a body fed wrongly and out of balance.

I still have a lot to learn (and things to read) but I thought I would share this with you guys. The woman who is helping me with this Is Machelle Pacion---who used to run the Bird-elicious bird food line (hopefully its up soon again)---normally I would be skeptical of a company claiming bird nutrition knowledge because of them trying to sell themselves so naturally their product is the best---but I haven't found this to be a problem. The info is backed up with science and makes sense to me and my sense of parrots as wild creatures.

Jacko's transitioning onto a personalized program she's helping me with and Pacion's book is due out soon. Here's the site if you want to check it out (there's a Facebook group as well)

http://thebestbirdfood.com/tag/bird-elicious/

[Grey_Moon]

Right now Jacko's daily regime is:

AM: -2tsp eggwhites
-blueberries (as many as she wants---antioxidants for her heart)
-fresh/frozen berries & fruits

During the day: -bee pollen, rooibos tea, chia seed, hemp seed, coriander and flax seed

PM: -2tsp eggwhites
-veggie/fruit mix (I'm transitioning her off of this)
-blueberries/fruit
-1/2 tsp Avigreens, 1/4 tsp Avi-Immune (transitioning her off these)

The eventual plan is to add in some clay, other herbs and possibly more nuts and seeds (she's off these to detox from omega-6's and compounds that can exacerbate plucking) and to substitute the eggwhites with mealworms.
She'll be put on these two formulas (wet food in the morning/evening and the dried stuff out during the day) eventually. She also has a few things (blueberries, coriander and rooibos) that are uniquely recommended for her heart/situation.

http://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/31608 ... 704399182/

http://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/31608 ... 832680536/

I'll see if I can find those on the blog for those who don't have facebook.

[pionus]

Grey_Moon, I have always been amazed at your diligence to give you birdie the best diet, and i am so happy that things are going well with you two!

I commend you for doing all the research you have done, you are very committed to your feathered companion.

Good luck!

[marie83]

Thanks you, I will be sure to check out those links.
Tbh, the only thing I have issue (not so much of an issue but something I have to look into further) with immediately from what you've said is the fruits, the type of fruits wild parrots would eat naturally are alot different in sugar content to the fruit we produce. Whether this can cause issues in itself is another matter entirely but is something I will be looking into as part of the course I am doing in the next few weeks. Our tutor is only allowed to give us a certain degree of help but he did hint very strongly that there is a massive difference between wild and fruits that are produced with human intervention and we need to consider that strongly when planning diets for animals and what a higher than natural sugar content in a diet might mean. That said obviously berries are generally much lower in sugar than an apple would be so perhaps that means there are no issues with a high fruit diet.
Is this something you may have considered in this new approach and what have you found out if so?

[Grey_Moon]

Yup, for example she's not chowing down on apples and grapes (she does get some---but not as a major part) she gets a lot of berries, papaya, mango, cherries, different berries, persimmons, figs...etc. As well as things like dragonfruit, tamarillos, starfruit, different African melons, less-ripe bananas.

I was worried about that as well---but she's not eating a lot of oversweet domesticated fruit, a lot of it is very dark/exotic fruits. To boot, its a different type of sugar than straight up glucose (if my memory serves) and does not pose the same issues.

To boot, I think we forget that, particularly with a pellet-eating bird that they're still getting a massive intake of carbohydrates (and therefore sugar) what with all the grains and legumes/soy that makes up the pellet content.
So I wonder how much that concern holds up in light of that....hmmm...

[friend2parrots]

Grey_Moon, thank you for posting about your bird's diet, the schedule you feed her on, and your suspicions about what might be causing Jacko's ailments. I find it very useful as I try to figure out how to make my own birds diets healthier. i was especially concerned to read that you suspect, or conclude that Harrison's caused calcification ugh. I never did like giving my birds pellets, but I do anyway, because its the "right" thing to do. but now I wonder, is it?

I have heard of other probs with pellets - that the concentrated nature of the nutrients can strain the kidneys. Its really distressing to have to feed one's parrot a compressed, artificial food. and its also a matter of concern that, as you say, they don't eat vegetables in the wild. but then one is told that giving too many fruits is like too much candy... it all just leaves me so confused.

I wish I could feed my birds something close to what they eat in the wild, particular to their species as it exists in its habitat, but I've never been able to find any ornithological information regarding their diets, for either species. I was wondering where you found out what your bird eats inthe wild - did you find out from the vet, or a textbook, or an online source? do you know where I could find out about the specific diet of other species in their natural habitat? I really wish I knew what my GCC's relatives eat in the Amazon jungle and what my Bourke's relatives eat in the Australian deserts.

[friend2parrots]

Jacko's transitioning onto a personalized program she's helping me with and Pacion's book is due out soon. Here's the site if you want to check it out (there's a Facebook group as well) http://thebestbirdfood.com/tag/bird-elicious/

I just had a chance to read through this article and browse through the site, and it is so eye-opening - thank you for posting this link. This article is like a light in the darkness! I can't believe so many of the things that we think are healthy for parrots are not. I plan to track down Pacion's book when it comes out.

Thanks again for sharing your research and experiences with Jacko with us.

[Grey_Moon]

It is absolutely amazing what I learn as time goes on.

It's funny now that I look at it that most commercial foods never explains the how and why of their foods are 'the best'. Most rely on either impressing you (now with 30 ingredients!) or by trying to play with most people's subservience to authority (formulated by experts!) or using the small and easy to manipulate understanding of what is 'healthy' food for most people (now with added protein and whole grains!) with our need to look good/improve our health (making beautiful feathers!).

Its pretty sad.

Reality is most of the bountiful ingredients are by-products/processed foods, industrial seeds/grains or soy. 'Experts' know nothing unbiased and who's an 'expert' depends on what field and who is paying. 'Healthy' is dependent on the animal (us included) and how it evolved and quite frankly you can get the 'recommended level of protein' by eating leather. Its easy to colour up plumage with additives or chemicals.

There's so much more to the picture here.