Seed-based diet best for Lovebirds?

[hnhobu]

I've done some research on what diet would be best for my lovebird, and I'm kind of surprised by the results.

When my parents were rescuing birds, we were always under the impression that seed was one of the worst things for all parrots because of it's fat content and therefore we would begin the transitioning process from a seed based diet to a pellet based diet as soon as we got them.

However, from what I've learned about lovebirds the best diet for them is not a pellet based one, but a seed based one with plenty of fresh vegetables available to them. What is your take on this?

[Andromeda]

It's nice to see you're doing your research. I'm not sure where you're seeing that seed diets are recommended for lovebirds but a seed diet is not good for any type of bird.

There's several problems with a seed diet but here's just a couple:

1. It's nutritionally deficient, can lead to malnutrition, and can cut a bird's lifespan in half.

2. The birds will pick through the seeds and only eat what they like "best" which is usually the high-fat stuff (sunflower seeds, for example). It's kind of like if you offered a kid a plate with celery and cake, and they're just going to sit there and eat cake until they're full.

3. The vitamins are sprinkled on top so there's no way of knowing whether they're getting enough or, possibly, too much.

Now, I know you're talking about feeding a seed diet supplemented with vegetables and while that's better than a seed-only diet it's still not going to ensure that the bird is getting proper nutrition.

The reason why pellets are the best choice is because they are completely nutritionally balanced and the bird can't "pick through" the food and eat what it wants and leave the rest. With a pellet every bite contains the same, balanced amount of nutrients.

Even with pellets you'd still want to feed some fresh fruits and vegetables but the pellets should make up the vast majority of the diet and the fruits and vegetables should be fed very sparingly.

Not all pellets are created equal. Avoid the ones with food coloring and sweeteners.

Michael uses Roudybush which is a high quality, non-organic pellet. Definitely read Michael's blog post on Roudybush Pellets because he goes into great detail about parrot diet, why pellets, how pellets affect a bird's health and plumage, why he chose Roudybush, etc.

I use Harrison's because it is high quality and organic, but because it's organic it costs more and must be used within six weeks of opening as it has no preservatices.

In Michael's blog he outlines a few reasons why he thinks the extra cost of organic pellets isn't "worth it," and definitely be sure to read his thoughts there, but organic vs. non-organic is a personal decision and to me it is worth the extra cost to know that my bird's food does not contain pesticides, preservatives, or GMOs.

I'm not saying that I'm right and Michael is wrong, I'm just giving the reasons why I choose Harrison's. That being said, you can't go wrong with Roudybush, either.

[hnhobu]

It's nice to see you're doing your research. I'm not sure where you're seeing that seed diets are recommended for lovebirds but a seed diet is not good for any type of bird.

There's several problems with a seed diet but here's just a couple:

1. It's nutritionally deficient, can lead to malnutrition, and can cut a bird's lifespan in half.

2. The birds will pick through the seeds and only eat what they like "best" which is usually the high-fat stuff (sunflower seeds, for example). It's kind of like if you offered a kid a plate with celery and cake, and they're just going to sit there and eat cake until they're full.

3. The vitamins are sprinkled on top so there's no way of knowing whether they're getting enough or, possibly, too much.

Now, I know you're talking about feeding a seed diet supplemented with vegetables and while that's better than a seed-only diet it's still not going to ensure that the bird is getting proper nutrition.

The reason why pellets are the best choice is because they are completely nutritionally balanced and the bird can't "pick through" the food and eat what it wants and leave the rest. With a pellet every bite contains the same, balanced amount of nutrients.

Even with pellets you'd still want to feed some fresh fruits and vegetables but the pellets should make up the vast majority of the diet and the fruits and vegetables should be fed very sparingly.

Not all pellets are created equal. Avoid the ones with food coloring and sweeteners.

Michael uses Roudybush which is a high quality, non-organic pellet. Definitely read Michael's blog post on Roudybush Pellets because he goes into great detail about parrot diet, why pellets, how pellets affect a bird's health and plumage, why he chose Roudybush, etc.

I use Harrison's because it is high quality and organic, but because it's organic it costs more and must be used within six weeks of opening as it has no preservatices.

In Michael's blog he outlines a few reasons why he thinks the extra cost of organic pellets isn't "worth it," and definitely be sure to read his thoughts there, but organic vs. non-organic is a personal decision and to me it is worth the extra cost to know that my bird's food does not contain pesticides, preservatives, or GMOs.

I'm not saying that I'm right and Michael is wrong, I'm just giving the reasons why I choose Harrison's. That being said, you can't go wrong with Roudybush, either.

Hahahah! You don't have to explain why you chose organic to me, as I am the same way. That being said, I go much father than just 'organic' with my good as I am a vegetarian to thrives off of local produce that is GMO/chemical free... and I want the same for my pets. My cats eat a organic, grain free wet food that costs an arm and a leg, but it insures their health and it's worth it. However, will pellets I feel like there is such a waste I'm afraid to spend too much.

The seed that I'm feeding Cassette is able to sprout, and I don't really give him sunflower seeds at all because he doesn't really like them. His favorite thing in any seed mixture is the millet, but he'll pick Carrots over Millet any day. I've found this information on the forum lovebirds plus, and I've also talked to a few breeders that say that lovebirds are the exception to the 'pellets are best' rule. In Africa, they eat a diet of seeds and vegetables and I guess that is just what they believe.

I'm partly asking because it's proving difficult to find any decently priced pellet where I'm living. I dont' have a car and rely on public transportation to get me where I need to go so my options are limited and sprout-able seeds are easy to find as I can purchase them at my local Market where I get my fruits and veggies. :p

[Andromeda]

I'm a vegetarian, too.

I don't know if you read Michael's blog post that I linked but he does address pellets vs. fresh food from a health perspective in an anecdote:

"One thing that really convinced me that pellets are a superior food for parrots was a discussion I had with Truman's breeder about pellets vs vegetables and fresh foods. She is a firm believer that pellets are food and everything else is just play stuff. In other words, pellets are for health and the other foods are just fun/tasty for the birds but not important. She explained to me that she used to be a firm believer in giving fresh foods to the birds and would spend hours every day preparing them until her mother became ill. She had to take a year off from the breeding business to care for her mother while entrusting her birds to the husband. The birds would be canned during this period and just bare essentials done until her return. What this meant was no more time consuming fresh foods. The birds were put on an all pellet diet. After a solid year on nothing but pellets, the birds appeared healthier (not only to the breeder but the vet as well) but more convincingly yielded greater offspring."

Sprouts are definitely good for birds, so it's great that you're feeding your lovebird sprouts.

I understand you don't have a car so this may or may not be helpful but here is a list of places you can buy Harrison's pellets in Quebec. If none of the locations are near you it's possible that some of them may be willing to ship.

I understand your concern about waste as the pellets have to be used within six weeks of opening. I have one idea regarding that: Harrison's has a product called Bird Bread which is a mix of ground up organic pellets (Adult Lifetime Coarse & Fine, High Potency Coarse & Fine), millet, and corn. You add water, oil, and eggs and bake it and, according to their website, it can be "stored for 1 year in the freezer after baking." You could cut it up into small pieces and put those pieces back in the bag before you place it in the freezer, serve however much your bird will eat per day, and not have to worry about waste as it would last up to a year. That way you could be feeding pellets (in "bread" form) in addition to fruits and vegetables.

I don't know if any of this will help due to your location and lack of transportation but I'm just throwing some ideas out there.

[hnhobu]

There are actually TWO places on Montreal which I can get to on that list.... and after looking at the price of the pellets AND the bird cakes, I'm very shocked. Considering we spend Anywhere from $40 to $50 on cat food a month, this is very cheap in comparison.

It looks like I'm about to go down the long, stressful path of switching my bird's diet.

Do you think getting the super fine pellets and mixing it in with seed will make it easier for him to switch?

[Andromeda]

It looks like I'm about to go down the long, stressful path of switching my bird's diet.

Do you think getting the super fine pellets and mixing it in with seed will make it easier for him to switch?

Harrison's recommends that birds converting from other diets be fed their High Potency Formula for a period of at least 6-8 months before switching over to the Adult Lifetime Formula. It's up to you whether you just want to start with and stick with the Adult Lifetime but in converting my birds I fed High Potency for 6 months and then switched them to Adult Lifetime. Once they are eating the pellets it takes no effort to switch between the two types of formulas after the 6 - 8 months are up so you don't have to worry about having to do anything special when you switch if you go that route.

Switching from seed to pellets can be tricky. Sometimes a bird will really like the pellets and will eat them in which case, great, but it's more likely you're going to have to slowly convert. With a small bird like a lovebird you have to be really careful to make sure it's not just "pretending" to eat the new food while slowly and secretly starving to death so what I'd suggest to be safe is to buy a gram scale.

Before you even begin the switch weigh the bird every day at the same time (in the morning before you feed it for the first time would be best) and write down its weight. Do this for a week and you'll have an average weight for your bird. Then you can start beginning to switch, continuing to weigh your bird every day in the morning. As long as the bird does not lose more than 10% of its body weight in grams, you know it's eating just fine. If it loses more than 10% of its body weight there is a problem and you'll have to go back to the seed, at least for a while, because you don't want your bird to starve.

As far as conversion, there's several different things you could try:

1. You could try mixing the pellets with the seed and over the course of a few weeks increase the amount of pellets. So, for example, week 1 75% seed/25% pellets. Week 2 50% seed/50% pellets. Week 3 75% pellets/25% seed. Week 4 100% pellets. Weigh your bird every day during this process to make sure it hasn't lost too much weight.

2. Remove all seeds at night. In the morning offer only pellets. Leave the pellets in the cage until the afternoon/evening. Then feed seed for the rest of the day. Repeat several days (or weeks) until the bird is eating the pellets, then offer only the pellets. Again, weigh your bird every day during this process to make sure it hasn't lost too much weight.

3. Moisten the pellets with a bit of fruit juice and see if the bird will eat them. Once the bird is used to eating the pellets stop using the fruit juice.

I used a combination of 1 & 3 with my birds. Maybe some other members will post their tips as well.

[marie83]

My cats eat a organic, grain free wet food that costs an arm and a leg, but it insures their health and it's worth it..

OMG finally someone who understands cats are carnivores, sorry I know its a bit off topic but people like you are hard to find! Drives me NUTS that tinned catfoods and alot of the cheapo dry cat foods for sale in the UK are about 75% cereal/grains. Cats in the wild don't eat anything like it, the only thing like that they consume is whatever is already partly digested in their preys stomach.

[hnhobu]

My cats eat a organic, grain free wet food that costs an arm and a leg, but it insures their health and it's worth it..

OMG finally someone who understands cats are carnivores, sorry I know its a bit off topic but people like you are hard to find! Drives me NUTS that tinned catfoods and alot of the cheapo dry cat foods for sale in the UK are about 75% cereal/grains. Cats in the wild don't eat anything like it, the only thing like that they consume is whatever is already partly digested in their preys stomach.

Well one day I decided to research what was in 'normal' cat food, and I won't go into the details but I was horrified. I hate how manipulative and deceiving labels are allowed to be in today's society. I had no idea that I was feeding my animals sick, euthanized animals... nor did I know that they were made with such low-quality grain. Let's just say that we threw out our brand new 30 lb back of wiskas and went directly to the pet store.

They now eat Wellness Wet Food once a day, and have a bowl of Oven Baked (grain free formula) available to them at all times. Eventually I want to start feeding them real meat, but I'll have to research that more.

[Grey_Moon]

Now I'm about to play devils' advocate here BUUT

I am hugely anti-pellet and anti-grain/legume/corn/soy/vegetable at this moment.
I do not think pellets are balanced healthy food.
The reality being IMO a highly inflammatory omega-6 lectin and phytate-rich processed food that has plenty of potential to be allergenic and is based on poultry feed and research.
Thus not adequate for exotic birds.
There is no way to tell how much of anything a particular bird let alone a particular species needs. Plus, the synthetic versions of vitamins may be too much, too little, harmful, poorly absorbed or not absorbed properly leading to health issues.
The grains/legumes are high in starch, fibre and gut-damaging lectins and phytates---since they are high starch and fiber they ferment in the birds' guts which they're not equipped to deal with and contribute to both pooping problems as well as digestive inflammation/issues. The indigestable cellulose fibre in veggies scrub the intestines of many nutrients and also bulk up/ferment in the guts which again is not something birds deal well with.

Harrisons I'm pretty sure gave my grey heart disease and regardless of following all the expert wisdom and feeding pellets/veggies etc she still had poor feathering, slow moults and flaky skin/beak/feet and lethargy.

She eats now lots of fruits, berries, some insects, clay, bark, herbs/grasses and a bit of seed.
I follow Machelle Pacion's (she's an avian nutritionists advice) http://thebestbirdfood.com/tag/birdelicious/

[Andromeda]

I actually used to feed my bird (I only had one at the time) BirD-elicious back in 2008 before they stopped manufacturing it. That's when I switched to Harrison's (my vet's recommendation).

Being "pretty sure" that Harrison's gave your grey heart disease is a pretty strong claim to make. I'm curious what led you to this conclusion? I'm not arguing with you but that's what I feed my birds so I'm interested in your evidence because if that is truly the case I might reconsider their diet.