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Cat flap for parrots?

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Cat flap for parrots?

Postby sunnyrio » Sat Jan 09, 2021 7:37 am

I'm looking for a way for my birds to have a heated indoor area, and an outside area, which they can go between by themselves, but without the expense of all the heat going through an open hole. A cat flap is the perfect solution for cats, but what do we use for birds? Would they use a catflap? Is there anything they would prefer?

P.S. How do I subscribe to this topic? I can find no tickbox or button in here.
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Re: Cat flap for parrots?

Postby Pajarita » Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:35 am

I don't think that a catflap would work because parrots would chew it up in no time at all (anything made out of plastic, wood, composite, cardboard, etc is considered 'chew worthy' by them :D). But why does the indoor enclosure need to be open all the time to the outdoor? A plain door between the two would suffice, no?
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Re: Cat flap for parrots?

Postby sunnyrio » Sat Jan 09, 2021 10:38 am

Pajarita wrote:I don't think that a catflap would work because parrots would chew it up in no time at all (anything made out of plastic, wood, composite, cardboard, etc is considered 'chew worthy' by them :D). But why does the indoor enclosure need to be open all the time to the outdoor? A plain door between the two would suffice, no?


I want them to be able to fly in and out at their own choice, depending if it's raining, what temperature it is, when they want to pop in for food and water (which will be indoors to keep it from getting wet).

I think I'll just have to have an open hole and accept I'm going to waste electricity!
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Re: Cat flap for parrots?

Postby Pajarita » Sat Jan 09, 2021 1:56 pm

I don't know where you are located but, if you are in a temperate zone that gets temperatures lower than 50 degrees and have tropical or semi-tropical birds, I would strongly suggest you do not allow them free-access to the outdoor and simply open the door whenever the weather is warm enough for them. But, even if I was in a place where bad weather or cold is an issue, I still would not have an open anything into my birds aviary. I would be afraid of some sort of animal coming in through the 'hole' and killing or injuring my birds. I have a friend in Canada that had a wonderful enclosure built around on a wall where there was a big bay window for his birds and his neighbor dogs managed to get inside through it and killed all his birds.
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Re: Cat flap for parrots?

Postby sunnyrio » Sun Jan 10, 2021 12:03 pm

Pajarita wrote:I don't know where you are located but, if you are in a temperate zone that gets temperatures lower than 50 degrees and have tropical or semi-tropical birds, I would strongly suggest you do not allow them free-access to the outdoor and simply open the door whenever the weather is warm enough for them. But, even if I was in a place where bad weather or cold is an issue, I still would not have an open anything into my birds aviary. I would be afraid of some sort of animal coming in through the 'hole' and killing or injuring my birds. I have a friend in Canada that had a wonderful enclosure built around on a wall where there was a big bay window for his birds and his neighbor dogs managed to get inside through it and killed all his birds.

I'm in Scotland. I've read that parrots are ok to go down to 5C (sorry I don't do the old fashioned F) on a permanent basis with just shelter and no heating, so they'll be fine here which is usually down to -5 to 0 in winter. They can pop inside if they don't like it.

I don't understand where you're coming from with animals getting in, the enclosure is welded mesh, nothing (even humans) could get through it without tools. We don't have bears, the biggest animal that gets into my garden is a domestic cat! I have 7 foot fences all round the garden, dogs don't get in. If my neighbour's dog was to do so and attempt to gain access, he wouldn't be seeing his dog again.
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Re: Cat flap for parrots?

Postby Pajarita » Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:19 am

Well, 5 C is 40 F and that is way too cold for tropical or semi-tropical (their safe range is no lower than 60 actually). The 5C would only work for birds that have originated in temperate zones - not all parrots are the same.

As to danger... well, I don't know what other predators you have in Scotland but I know you have foxes, minks and martens that eat birds and are small and smart enough to get almost anywhere (and let's not forget about cats!) but I think that my biggest worry would be people. We read reports of birds stolen from porches, gardens and backyards all over the place. Be careful because all it takes is one single bad person watching your house and figuring out when you won't be home.
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Re: Cat flap for parrots?

Postby sunnyrio » Mon Jan 11, 2021 1:12 pm

Pajarita wrote:Well, 5 C is 40 F and that is way too cold for tropical or semi-tropical (their safe range is no lower than 60 actually). The 5C would only work for birds that have originated in temperate zones - not all parrots are the same.
I don't know where you read that, but many people in England (where winter is usually down to about 5C) have outdoor unheated enclosures for many parrot species and they're fine. They say humans like a room temperature of 21C, but we wouldn't die if we lived in a tent at -10C.

Pajarita wrote:As to danger... well, I don't know what other predators you have in Scotland but I know you have foxes, minks and martens that eat birds and are small and smart enough to get almost anywhere
Never seen one in my entire 45 years. And can those get through a 2 by 2 inch grid?

Pajarita wrote:(and let's not forget about cats!) but I think that my biggest worry would be people. We read reports of birds stolen from porches, gardens and backyards all over the place. Be careful because all it takes is one single bad person watching your house and figuring out when you won't be home.
My back garden is not accessible without either climbing over my house roof, or over a 7 foot fence from one of my neighbours. In fact it's so inaccessible I don't lock the back door to the house.
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Re: Cat flap for parrots?

Postby Michael » Mon Jan 11, 2021 2:28 pm

sunnyrio wrote:
Pajarita wrote:As to danger... well, I don't know what other predators you have in Scotland but I know you have foxes, minks and martens that eat birds and are small and smart enough to get almost anywhere
Never seen one in my entire 45 years. And can those get through a 2 by 2 inch grid?


Don't know about them specifically, but I do know that cats, racoons, owls, and birds of prey have been known to stick a claw through aviary mesh and kill birds inside. Whether or not they manage to pull it out isn't even important. They don't have to get in to be dangerous. Just something to keep in mind.
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Re: Cat flap for parrots?

Postby Pajarita » Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:01 am

[ [/quote]I don't know where you read that, but many people in England (where winter is usually down to about 5C) have outdoor unheated enclosures for many parrot species and they're fine. They say humans like a room temperature of 21C, but we wouldn't die if we lived in a tent at -10C.

It's not that they would drop dead, it's that their average lifespan is greatly shortened - same as would happen with people living in a tent at -10C all their lives. Species evolved to 'fit' perfectly into their natural habitat and, although you can keep a tropical bird at lower temperatures, the bird will not last as long as it could because the body would be under constant physical stress trying to keep warm without the natural mechanisms given to species that evolved to live under lower temperatures. Nature does not give an animal the way to fight something that is not present in its natural habitat. Contrary to what people believe, species do not get accustomed to environmental conditions that are not the ones they evolved to live under - it takes domestication to do that and domestication takes thousands of goal-oriented and manipulated genetic engineering to achieve a change in their genetic make-up so you can keep a polar bear in the heat but the poor thing will be suffering all the time and die young same as you can keep a giraffe in the cold but it will suffer and not last long. This is not my opinion, mind you, it's a scientific fact.

As to where I read about the 'safe' temperature for parrots... well, as with everything else for which we don't have any 'good' answer, I go to nature and simply look at the temperature ranges in the geographical zone they originated from (which is the same thing that zookeepers do when they design any species enclosure). I don't know what species of parrots you have but, for example, if we were talking about a Sun conure, I would look at the temperature range of the Guyanas (between 26 and 28 C), if we were talking about a Senegal, I would look at the temperature range of West Africa (18 to 26 C), like that... There are parrots that do manage to acclimate to temperatures well outside their range, namely quakers, but one should not use them as an example for parrots because they are quite unique (so unique, in fact, that they are sui generis). Wild IRNs do live in London even though there are nights in the winter when the temperature does go down to 1 or 2 C but nobody knows what is their average lifespan is under those conditions (there are no studies done tagging the birds).
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Re: Cat flap for parrots?

Postby sunnyrio » Tue Jan 12, 2021 1:42 pm

Michael wrote:
sunnyrio wrote:
Pajarita wrote:As to danger... well, I don't know what other predators you have in Scotland but I know you have foxes, minks and martens that eat birds and are small and smart enough to get almost anywhere
Never seen one in my entire 45 years. And can those get through a 2 by 2 inch grid?


Don't know about them specifically, but I do know that cats, racoons, owls, and birds of prey have been known to stick a claw through aviary mesh and kill birds inside. Whether or not they manage to pull it out isn't even important. They don't have to get in to be dangerous. Just something to keep in mind.
If I was ever concerned, I'd make it double layer with a gap (which I've done indoors to stop one species biting another). But I did use to have cats walking across the top of my old one, the parrots terrified the cats! I also used to have my own cats, walking around in the house along with the parrots. Again, the Greys chased the cats and scared them silly.
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