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How to take care of 3 month old Sun Conure and bond?

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How to take care of 3 month old Sun Conure and bond?

Postby Sepharlie » Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:40 pm

Hello all! I could use help with my little 3 month old female Sun Conure.

Before I write my post, I want to let you all know that I did my research prior to getting this bird. I bought a lot of books and read a lot on the Internet including on this forum; I watched youtube videos, bought training videos from Barbara Heidenreich, had my husband read some of the books too so that he doesn't do any more wrong than me. Experience wise, we don't have much but it's not our first bird; I used to have a budgie, and he lived with a cockatiel for a while.

We want to do the best by her. But even with all the resources I looked into we are clueless about many things. We need help to not screw this up monumentally.

Now, the situation. She's a hand fed baby who was well socialized at the breeders'. We've had her at home for about a week (I know, it is very little time). She has clipped wings from the breeder - they clipped her twice because she kept flying they told us. Well, birdie still doesn't care and after two days of testing, she realized she can still fly (I'm totally fine with that, being able to fly seems to make her feel more secure).

What are my questions? Well, let me try to explain.

1) she couldn't care less about company, or the state of the sun, or anything. I am a little surprised by that. She does not make a sound in the morning, nor does she make a sound at night. If we're in the room sometimes she makes the tiny conure chirps to which we reply, but past that she's extremely quiet and independent. She likes to come out of the cage but just to play by herself. Considering what all sources I found say, I was a little surprised by all that! I'm afraid that she's going to become lonelye because it may take her very long to decide if she likes us or not, but in the meantime I'm afraid she'll get sad because she don't get much interaction. I figure it could be just because she's been here only a week? What do you all think? I'm not asking of her to love us instantly of course - but she's gotten more distant is even seems, ever since she figures out how well she can fly despite the second clip (she is very good, she can gain altitude and all, just exerts herself because she's lacking all primary flight feathers)- the first three days or so, if we were to put our hands in the cage for any reason, she'd jump on our arm (so we'd take her out a little bit). Now she just looks on without interest. Occasionally she'll fly in my direction, only to stay for a few seconds / minutes and fly back to her cage. Twice or three time, she's stayed on my shirt for a rest (like, right around my collarbone). I put low music or bird song for her during the day when I'm away. I'm at home a lot these days. Also, I work partly from home (I'm a teacher and don't care for offices so Ido all my teacher work at home except the class time) so long term Charlie should have me around often too.

2) She spends A LOT of time sitting there fluffed up kind of napping but not asleep. I know birds nap / rest a lot but basically all shes does is eat, rest, and play a tiny bit each day. She has a bunch of toys that she does seem to like.

3) She tends to start eating when we walk in the room. It's a little weird after a while. For a bit I thought she was pretending to eat because sick or something. But she isn't, she's eating.

4) She makes baby noises, head bobbing and that general baby begging behavior in various circumstances and we don't understand. For example if she's on top of the cage to play and we're around, she does it. Also if she's on my shirt cuddling with it she will do that (this has happened 3 times and each time she just does that). She has food in her cage at all times, I don't see how she'd be hungry. When she does that she won't take food from us either. We thought maybe she wants a cuddle because she got cuddled with the breeders, but I doubted that would help since she doesn't know us or trust us yet I imagine, and unsurprisingly, nope she doesn't seem to like it. Sometimes if I'm singing she settles down and looks at me fixedly and curiously with her little adorable eye. We are very dumbfounded haha.

5) she likes to be in a corner when on top of her cage and won't come out. Twice I've had to grab her because we had to go to work / sleep and she wouldn't come back. I know how bad that is and felt awful doing it. But there was no other way. Even treats wouldn't lure her out. She wasn't playing or anything either, just in a corner hiding under toys.

6) I have been trying to get her to step up reliably. I know she's too young and not close to us enough for other training, the only thing we want for her to know for now is the step up thing because sometimes it's a matter of safety etc. The only treat she likes so far is dried papaya. I cut it in tiny pieces and make her step up, and since she loves flying, and started flying to my hand for the papaya herself out of impatience, also fly to it a tiny distance (8 inches or so). She will do the step up and fly when there is a treat on the horizon (even if I hide it behind my back - she know the routine now) but otherwise she generally does not care to.
We try to ask her only when she'd want to so that she's not forced - but we need for her to step up when we leave - anytime I put her back in the cage I give her a treat or a toy so that going back to the cage isn't bad. She seems to like her cage, seeing how she often doesn't want to come out, she just likes the top of it too much to go back inside :D I understand that part of this is a safety thing.

7) we are struggling to have her be anywhere but near her cage. The living room scares her (we took her there on a perch just as an excurusion, she seemed ok, very aware but not terrified, but ever since those few minutes there she refuses to go again, she just flies to my head or wherever. She tolerates no perch or playstand for more than a minute after which she flies back to the cage. She doesn't seem afraid of them, her body language is not saying so, but she just leaves.

8) She hates going to bed - but is cranky and sleepy in the morning. She's in a room by herself at night, with a cage cover, and I make sure she's got twelve hours of dark.

Overall she has quite a bit of character and his as stubborn as a sun conure is wont to be - bthat's fine with me in general - but what confuses me is she's a tiny baby and was very sweet and easy with the breeders - obviously she must've had a bond to them and they of course have all the experience. But we're wondering if we're going in a direction where that won't be replicated in our home. Because she's so young, uninterested in being with us, and in treats except papaya, I don't really know how to approach her. We don't want her to be stuck in the cage all the time, but when we take her out we end up having to "force" her back in which is not good in building mutual trust. We don't know what we're doing wrong and we're scared that we're antagonizing her by not understanding what she wants, especially with the baby cries and head bobbing/ wing shaking.

Sorry for the rambling mess, I just hope somebody can advise us! I'm obviously overthinking everything and worrying for no reason or for a reason, I won't know until you guys tell me haha! I just want to understand her and her needs better so that we don't have to worry that we're making her hate this place and us. Thank you in advance.

Attached is a picture of the birdie in question on her cage on my husband's arm on day 2.
Attachments
grrt.jpg
Charlie
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Sepharlie
Parrotlet
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 11
Number of Birds Owned: 1
Types of Birds Owned: Sun Conure
Flight: Yes

Re: How to take care of 3 month old Sun Conure and bond?

Postby Pajarita » Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:23 am

My dear, she is HUNGRY!!!!! And you are not handfeeding her - that's why:
she makes begging noises
she bobs her head
she only eats when you are there
she lost interest in you
she used to jump on your arm but no longer does it.

And the too often naps on her own is not a good sign, either! Neither is the fact that she is now ignoring you. Babies don't really have a honeymoon period, they need constant attention from day one and hours and hours of cuddling in between feedings

Breeders wean too fast so they can move their merchandise but no sun conure is weaned at three months of age - it just never happens in the wild. The way breeders look at it is if the bird eats by itself, it's weaned. But this is not so. It's like saying that because a 2 year old toddler can feed itself, all you need to do is set a plate of adult food for it and leave it at that. And the fact that she was clipped as a baby tells you this was NOT a good breeder! Good breeders do not clip babies because preventing them from learning how to fly properly at the right age window is one of the worst things you can do to a bird (they develop neural paths from learning to fly that they use, later in life, for other things).

Please hurry up and get her formula and a feeding syringe as well as ingredients for soft food (which she should get served fresh and warm twice a day and kept always in her cage), she has already gone without enough food for too long and the stress of being constantly hungry is damaging not only physically but also emotionally (food is love, it's comfort, it's security).
Pajarita
Norwegian Blue
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 15982
Location: NE New Jersey
Number of Birds Owned: 30
Types of Birds Owned: Toos, grays, zons, canaries, finches, cardinals, senegals, jardine, redbelly, sun conure, button quail, GCC, PFC, lovebirds
Flight: Yes

Re: How to take care of 3 month old Sun Conure and bond?

Postby Sepharlie » Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:32 pm

Thanks very much for your reply!

I am glad I wrote, because I was feeling that something isn't quite right.

I am aware of how some breeders are hurried - I asked the breeders to keep her as long as the bird needed and offered to pay the price of boarding for whatever extra days the bird would need compared to the usual schedule- I tried to make sure they wouldn't give her to us before she's very weaned and comfy eating her own stuff. But I guess that didn't do the trick :( I know they stay with their parents for up to a year in the wild and we are totally ok to do our best to emulate that for her. I did not however expected to get a baby so young that this happens and am quite upset about it and will not recommend this breeder to anyone. At the breeder I asked lots of food questions and they insisted to feed her only solid food. They also said to not take her out of the cage for more than 15 minutes every two hour for the first two weeks. That struck us as a little strange for a hand fed baby who should be needing more interaction, but since they have so many returning customers and have raised many happy birds we figured we're just too stupid to understand. What do you think of that ?

It is a reputed breeder with extremely happy customers - but I guess that doesn't always mean what we think - I don't know how soon they clipped her however. She is quite confident in her flying and seems very controlled, she knows exactly where she is going and how to get there and if she can - but that could just be that she's got instinct and smarts, it is possible they didn't let her fly. These people were very much recommended to me and have only stellar reviews. I was in an adoption process that led nowhere since the bird went with someone else and then we found Charlie and based on the reviews thought we'd get a bird that has been well taken care of. I was also under the impression that the bird was five months old because the hatch date I saw was that of her clutch mates, but she's the youngest. That's my bad for assuming though - there was a picture of all the babies together, but I learnt there that she had been born later.

This is very good to know. Honestly I've been thinking something similar, so we've been giving her warm mushy food - with very moderate success - but if it is a syringe she needs then we're getting that. What kind of food am I supposed to put in it? Can I buy just any sort of syringe? I want to go take care of that today - but I don't know if I can find a bird specialized syringe.

Also, how fast do you depress the syringe thingie?

I feel so bad for my little Charlie. We were just not prepared for her being so young. i hope we'll do better onwards.

We're going to try this method from as soon as possible and I will report...

Thank you so much. The breeder absolutely did not suggest that, more to the opposite. Poor birdie.
Sepharlie
Parrotlet
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 11
Number of Birds Owned: 1
Types of Birds Owned: Sun Conure
Flight: Yes

Re: How to take care of 3 month old Sun Conure and bond?

Postby Sepharlie » Wed Dec 11, 2019 10:01 am

So far she wants nothing to do with the syringe
Sepharlie
Parrotlet
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 11
Number of Birds Owned: 1
Types of Birds Owned: Sun Conure
Flight: Yes

Re: How to take care of 3 month old Sun Conure and bond?

Postby Pajarita » Thu Dec 12, 2019 10:10 am

Of course you could tell something was wrong! Your worry and concern came through very clearly in your post. You might not have been able to put 2 and 2 together but you knew there was something no quite right with the whole thing.


As to the breeder being reputable... well, I am afraid that when it comes to breeding birds that does not mean much. The thing that people forget is that there is no such thing as a breeder who loves birds. I mean, think about it, do you really think that if they truly loved birds, they would breed the ones they have, then steal the babies from them (making the parents suffer mourning for the stolen babies - and this has been proven over and over) and sell them to anybody who has the money for it? To a breeder, birds are merchandise and no business man loves the merchandise he sells... what they love is the money they make out of them. There could be a situation where a person who loves its pet birds makes a mistake and allows them to breed but I bet you a nickel against a dollar that this person gives the babies away for free and ONLY to people who would love them and not just anybody who wants them. I used to breed purebred song canaries and give the babies away even though I could have easily gotten $150 for each of them but even that I stopped because it's not easy to find good homes for babies year after year...

As to the baby not wanting the syringe... well, the only thing that means, in my personal opinion, is that the breeder did not use a syringe to handfeed because even my old birds get all excited when they see a feeding syringe (which is a very useful thing because you can use it to medicate if the bird gets sick). If this is a largish scale breeder, it might also mean that the baby was gavage-fed - which is, by far, the worst thing you can do to a baby.

Try using a small plastic spoon to feed it in the beak when she starts chirping/bobbing her head (place it right above her head and gently touch the sides of her beak with your finger to stimulate the feeding response) and give it two different kinds of soft, warm food (things like gloop, polenta/oatmeal/Irish oats/whole grain couscouse mixed with fruit/veggie puree, etc) in the cage. And spend as many hours as you can with it - just putting the baby on your lap and covering it lightly with your palm (like a momma bird would cover the chicks with her body) for a nap.
Pajarita
Norwegian Blue
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 15982
Location: NE New Jersey
Number of Birds Owned: 30
Types of Birds Owned: Toos, grays, zons, canaries, finches, cardinals, senegals, jardine, redbelly, sun conure, button quail, GCC, PFC, lovebirds
Flight: Yes

Re: How to take care of 3 month old Sun Conure and bond?

Postby Sepharlie » Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:29 pm

Very good points about breeders - and pretty much what my husband said himself. Honestly I was disappointed at how they didn't even ask about what we'd gotten for the bird, etc, to check if we'd give it good treatment. I am familiar with how rescues proceed (asking a lot of questions, screening, interviews and was under the very naive impression that breeders did the same thing! This is the last ever time I get any pet from anything that is not a rescue I think. There ought to be rules to protect the animals...

As for the feeding - in fact I saw they had syringes there, and it did look like they use them with the conures too. But she's definitely not excited about it. Maybe it's because she can tell I have no clue how to use it! Haha. I bought a special spoon for handfeeding birds (it's stainless) and once she's familiar with it she may go for it - it's much less scary for me, too, so I think this should work better.

So we'll keep putting oatmeal in the cage (she has trouble not dropping the whole thing to the bottom, but we'll figure out a way). Forthe spoon / syringe, what do I use? We got a tiny bag of bird formula, not sure what we needed.

Thanks again!

Yes I have started to ignore the "15 min rule" and I just put her on my chest hiding her gently under the side of my hoodie and she cuddles there some. Sometimes when she's laying and we're right there she runs to our hands, just hides there some. Or under my hair - I don't have the heart to not let her on my shoulder as she is so insistent to be on it, she feels safe under the hair, where she cuddles and rests - but, importantly, she steps down without issue. Is that ok?
Sepharlie
Parrotlet
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 11
Number of Birds Owned: 1
Types of Birds Owned: Sun Conure
Flight: Yes

Re: How to take care of 3 month old Sun Conure and bond?

Postby Pajarita » Fri Dec 13, 2019 9:59 am

Yes, of course it's OK! Parrots always want to be on people's shoulders for very good reasons:
1) they are next to your face and they know that YOU are your face, they look into your eyes, they kiss your cheeks and love to kiss your mouth even though it's not good for them.
2) it's a high, comfortable place to be what with the shoulder providing a nice, roomy, horizontal perch and being able to move around your neck to the front and back (I have a little one that hangs from the neck of my shirt right under my chin) - and yes, hide under your hair. Babies so benefit from the closeness this creates, especially the taking a little nap under your hair (I am sure this reminds them of when they were tiny babies with their momma setting on them to give them warmth and safety). Nothing will make her love you more than this type of thing... it's one of the best bonding techniques (but handfeeding is even more so).

I know there are people who say that parrots should not be allowed on a shoulder because they can bite your face but I've rescued parrots since 1992, cared for hundreds (literally) and have always allowed whoever wanted to be on my shoulder to perch there. Even the most aggressive bird I've ever had (which I still have, by the way)! And yes, I have gotten bit in the face but never happened when a bird was perching on my shoulder - it has always being from an outright attack as in a bird flying out to me with the sole purpose of biting me. Personally, I think that people who say that parrots should not be allowed on shoulders are people who have no business keeping parrots because they obviously do not understand them and/or have enough experience with them.

Don't give her just oatmeal, give her some variety because you want her to get used to eating all different kinds of textures, colors, tastes, etc. This is the ONLY time she will accept new food without a problem (because this is the age where she would start copying her parents diet in the wild) so you want her to get used to eating all different kinds of things. Try cooking whole grain plain couscous and mix it with sweet corn and some fruit puree or grated apple, mashed bananas, etc. You can also make her a simple gloop or cook some millet until it's almost soft and mix it with pumpkin puree or mashed sweet potatoes. As to the formula, you can use it as is BUT I would recommend doctoring it with fruit purees so as to reduce the protein in it (don't forget that sun conures are mainly fruit eaters in the wild so they cannot eat a high protein diet).
Pajarita
Norwegian Blue
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 15982
Location: NE New Jersey
Number of Birds Owned: 30
Types of Birds Owned: Toos, grays, zons, canaries, finches, cardinals, senegals, jardine, redbelly, sun conure, button quail, GCC, PFC, lovebirds
Flight: Yes

Re: How to take care of 3 month old Sun Conure and bond?

Postby Sepharlie » Fri Dec 13, 2019 12:48 pm

Thanks again! All makes sense to me!

We've been giving her a new fruit or vegetable almost everyday, based off of the lists of safe conure foods (buying things we don't even normally eat, we joke that thanks to the bird we'll start eating more variety :lol:) - we eat them in front of her to show her it's good and then give it to her - but we do lack imagination for now in terms of making a mush food recipe, so thanks for the suggestion! We didn't really think either of adding different grains.

The one thing that is really a difficulty as of now is getting her back in her cage. It's not a small cage and she doesn't' seem to find it boring when she's in (even though she'd have more fun if she dared to explore the lower parts of it a little, but I know that's a little counter nature for them - so she has lots of toys high up)- but it doesn't matter how long she's out of it, she doesn't want to go back in. For two days I could lure her back with dried papaya but now she knows and won't haha. Like I said before we've had to grab her a couple times because we had to leave - and obviously this has had bad consequences.
Now, I tried putting interesting food in her cage and giving her 30 min to decide if she wants it or not. Worked once and not again. Now I'm afraid of taking her out of the cage in the morning because then when I have to leave I know she won't go back in. And I have hours in the morning she could spend out and about. So far I am taking her out of the cage in the morning, but I keep her on me, I don't let her go play on the top of the cage, because if I do so I can't get her back in. So she just hangs on me for a while until I put her back directly in. But that's not ideal as she can't decide what she does out of the cage and I don't want that long term . I want her to decide if she wants to be with me, or playing on the cage. I don't want her to miss out on that. Or to fall in a vicious circle. Most often I'm gone only up to 4 hours. At night, she also refuses to go back in to sleep - we leave her on the cage for a few hours, playing etc, we play with her some, we try to take her around (but she's attached to the top of the cage like velcro, it's difficult to entice her to want to leave it). Once she is in, she settles down very quickly to sleep - but she still doesn't want to go. And we don't want to force her. She generally categorically refuses to step up any time she's on top of the cage, because she knows that sometimes that means we put her back. And when she does step up, if we make any move towards the cage door, she flies back to the top. Even once i've put away all the toys that are up there, because it's time for bed, she stays up there rather than go in her sleep corner inside the cage. If we felt it was safe we'd let her sleep there - but we can't be sure it is, plus we can't cover her up for darkness there, and she wouldn't get her required sleep time.
Any suggestions?

Thanks again so much for your time.
Sepharlie
Parrotlet
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 11
Number of Birds Owned: 1
Types of Birds Owned: Sun Conure
Flight: Yes

Re: How to take care of 3 month old Sun Conure and bond?

Postby Pajarita » Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:20 am

Well, one can't really blame them for not wanting to go back into their cages, right? I mean, I know for a fact, I would fight it tooth and nail :lol:

Now, the trick to getting them back into their cage is timing and diet. Let me explain. Parrots don't understand the concept of obedience because they do not live in a hierarchical society (they have no bosses and no bosses means nobody tells them what to do at any point in time) so expecting them to obey us just because we need them to is futile. You need to establish a daily routine that does not ever change - meaning, weekdays are the same as weekends as holidays as sick days as vacation days, etc. Parrots in the wild follow EXACTLY the same routine very single day of their lives. They might change the direction in which they fly to forage, whether they take a bath that day or not, etc. but they always go foraging at the same time every day (and this does not mean the time by the clock but the time IN the day, meaning, say, right after sunrise or one whole hour after it but within the same period of time every day). I will tell you how I do it with mine (and I have, right now as I am typing, 11 birds out at the same time). I open the blinds when the first light appears on the horizon, which, this time of the year, means at 7:15 am, open their cages for them to come out (and I say 'Good morning! Come out?' to each of them as I go around), I clean their cages, put fresh water in and put in the raw produce. Then I sweep and mop the floors and, when I go around putting the gloop in the cages, I put them back in saying 'Go home! Que rica papa! Eat it!'. They have learned what this means and have no issues going back into the cages - so much so that several of them fly to the top of their cages to wait for me to put the food in so they can go in and eat their breakfast (because, by then, I have turned on the overhead lights (which, to them, it means bright day), they are quite hungry (because an entire hour has passed since they came out) and they love their gloop (food and love is what motivates parrots). They stay in for about half an hour and the doors are opened again with the "Come out?". Now, mine stay out until 2 pm this time of the year (later in the summer when the days are longer) when they all go back into them without a problem except for a little GCC which was not handfed so she doesn't step up or allow humans to touch her so I lure her in with the tiniest sprinkle (maybe half a teaspoon?) of finch seed mix. I tell her to "Go home!", show her the 'peanuts' (all seeds and nuts are peanuts to my birds) in my hand saying "Peanuts! Que rica papa!", sprinkle them on the gloop, walk away and in she goes!

Once they get used to the routine and as long as they don't have to spend too many hours in their cages, they are all willing to go back into them. Now, because you have a brand new baby, you have to 'train her' by using what we call a high value item - which is always a food item that is high in protein and, ideally, their very favorite one. So, put before her a few different kinds of seeds (try a bit of a millet spray and a couple of safflower seeds first) and see which one she chooses the most often out of a few tries and that is her high value item. And, when you are ready to leave (the best time for them to be put into a cage is at noon because they all take a nap or a rest at that time), use the command you choose (equivalent to my 'Go Home') and the word you will use for the high value item (equivalent to my Peanuts) and put it in her cage. At the beginning, you will have to put her in but she will soon learn that there is a nice reward for her in it and will go in without a problem. Mind you, Rome was not built in a day and these things take time but if you are patient, persistent and consistent, it will happen.

As to for her to fall asleep, what you need to do is turn off the lights once the sun is halfway down to the horizon because it's the special light that happens at dawn and dusk that turns on or off their 'internal clock' (which tells them if it's time to wake up, to eat, to sleep, etc and marks the difference in daylight hours from season to season -longer days in the summer, shorter days in the winter or resting season- which, in turn, tells their bodies when it's time to nest, breed, molt, etc). Once the sun starts to set and the spectrum changes, her body will register it (it will first make her hungry for her dinner) and, as it starts to get dark, she will start producing melatonin which will make her drowsy and, by the time it's night, she will be fast asleep (my birds get their lights off at 3:00 pm, dinner at 3:30 and are all asleep by 5 pm (I close the blinds at 6 or 6:30 pm).
Pajarita
Norwegian Blue
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 15982
Location: NE New Jersey
Number of Birds Owned: 30
Types of Birds Owned: Toos, grays, zons, canaries, finches, cardinals, senegals, jardine, redbelly, sun conure, button quail, GCC, PFC, lovebirds
Flight: Yes

Re: How to take care of 3 month old Sun Conure and bond?

Postby Sepharlie » Sat Dec 14, 2019 2:12 pm

Thanks for this thorough explanation!

I have read about this and their rhythm of life, but I was having trouble translating that to the captive lifestyle. We'll sit down and try to figure out a routine we can try out. At this time here the sun is up at 7 and gone at 4 which is absurdly sad.

Of course I don't blame her - even though I myself am happy enough to go back to my "cage" - meaning, my tiny apartment :lol: but I understand why she wouldn't, she wants to be her own boss and that makes sense to me! Even if I'm very ready to go home, if I feel that someone is forcing me to, suddenly I won't want to anymore :lol:

The absence of hierarchy in parrots is part of why I love them so much. I think there is little that is more precious than a relationship not based on power dynamics, but on true attempts to understand and respect the other and their own power. I definitely don't want to think in terms of "obey" and such. We just have to find a compromise that works for both the human and the parrot, as willing participants and co-signers to the little treaties of daily life :) That is my goal but for sure we have a lot to learn about how to make it true.
Sepharlie
Parrotlet
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 11
Number of Birds Owned: 1
Types of Birds Owned: Sun Conure
Flight: Yes

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