Nir wrote:After talking to ginger, i am now also considering a timneh. i would like some inputs from owners who have owned a Senegal and one of the African greys (since both are very similar in temperament. How do they differ? Which is more aggressive/bity?
Grey Parrots and Senegal Parrots have somewhat differing biting. Greys are much more prone to fear biting. They may be scared of something you completely don't think about (could be something silly like just wearing a different shirt or something) and bite you "out of nowhere" but really cause they are scared.
I would say the fear biting is actually a more difficult but less dangerous but more unexpected form of biting to solve. It's more difficult because you have to slowly, patiently, diligently, and carefully desensitize the parrot to literally everything and everyone. It's important to avoid stress cause Grey's aren't good at handling it. They end up plucking. So a Grey kind of needs to be treated like a big scared baby that is afraid of everything and needs help getting past it. Kind of like being afraid of the dark. Except I think they actually are afraid of the dark!
The Senegal Parrot biting tends to be more related to territory, jealousy, rivalry, displaced, and just bullying. Senegals can bite out of fear but they seem to be more fearless than Greys so it's less the issue. They're really bold so they are less likely to be driven by fear. Instead, they can be driven by aggression and intentionally pick fights. For some people this is less tolerable, for others (like me) it is more tolerable. I would rather work on reducing rivalry, desensitizing toward territory, and socializing than waiting for weeks for the bird to stop being afraid of something. To me, the fear bite is more unexpected than the jealousy/territory bite because I have no idea what crazy new idea the bird gets to be afraid of.
As for Senegals bullying owners, this is probably the more common/serious problem. This requires a certain balance of fearlessness but without cockiness. Like you need to be tough but at the same time not overbearing. You can't back down or be affected by fear, but you can't piss them off or trigger fear/aggression either. It's a certain balance but it seems that once you get it, it's the key to this species. I've been able to handle loads of Senegals without getting bit with pretty much the same approach.
Now, I think in both cases flight DOES reduce a lot of this biting. In the case of the Grey it can fly away when it's scared and the Senegal can fly to its favorite person to avoid competitors. The Senegal can also avoid jealous aggression by getting what it wants rather than biting for it. So let's say Kili is jealous that Truman is hanging out with me and wants to instead, she can fly over to me and hang out too rather than boiling with frustration and then biting when she gets an opportunity. On the flip side having an aggressive bird be able to fly and attack can be a downside too but having a super fearful bird constantly fly away is it's own problem.
So when we say, "socialization, socialization, socialization..." for Senegals it's more about other people but for Greys it's more about places, objects, and people too.
I seriously contemplated a Grey but ended up going with a Cape Parrot instead. I suggest going back through those discussions to see some owner perspectives about Greys that was advised to me and why I opted for another Poicephalus instead:
Timneh vs Congo African GreyMale vs Female African GreysCape ParrotMore Cape vs GreyOwning Truman now, and guessing that he is more like a Grey than a Senegal is, I would say that it's difficult more in subtle ways. The Senegal problems are bold, obvious, and clear. Whereas with a Cape/Grey, they get more moody over things we can't even begin to guess. They hold grudges longer. Your mistakes are more greatly amplified. This is one of the big reasons they're not considered "beginner birds." To me the, most of the Senegal Parrot problems are more solvable and quicker to solve. Plucking may never get solved whereas biting other people can at least be reduced through late in life socialization. That's the thing, biting other people is a clear problem and you know what you're tackling. Plucking could be caused by anything! It could be genetic, physiological, neurotic, boredom, fear, etc. If it's psychology induced plucking, good luck figuring out what things are triggering it (if changing them could even solve it). So even if a Senegal isn't necessarily easier, I'd say the signs are more obvious.
Also it is a LOT easier to READ a Senegal. Their body language is anything but subtle. They are very expressive and you can tell a lot from their eyes. On the Cape and similar on a Grey (but not as much I think, could someone comment on this?) you can't see the eyes well and it's harder to tell. Again, with more experience the Grey is probably readable but I think with the Senegal it's easier to spot.
Nir wrote:I already know a ton about both birds since i had researched on timnehs as well.
It is this kind of thinking that I think is making a lot of people cautious about your qualifications to get a parrot. I'm not just saying not to say this out loud (but it definitely isn't helping) but not to even think it. Even after reading countless books, watching dvds, talking to tons and tons of owners, working with my birds and others, I am still learning. Just over my recent trip to Phoenix and training Ginger's birds I learned so much more new stuff (or solidified opinions I already developed). Parrots are so intelligent and complex that there is much more to learn than you can even fathom. So when a beginner thinks they know "a ton about birds," it just sounds like major ignorance of not even knowing just how much they don't know. I have tons of gaps in my knowledge of parrots. I don't know much about many other species except what I've read/heard. I don't know a lot about outdoor freeflight, teaching talking, working with problematic rescue birds, etc. These things may not directly affect me, but I am perfectly willing to accept that there is much to be learned. So if you want people to take you seriously, I'd suggest taming your expectations and realize the complexity you are getting into. On paper, theses "problems" we as owners deal with may not sound so bad. But wait till it's happening to you and you're experiencing it. Suddenly it's not just a story you heard about.
PS I know that Mona owns both, Pchela, and so does Ginger. Actually Pchela might not have hers anymore. I think she had to give it up cause her Senegal kept trying to kill it. But she could probably tell you about the difference as well.