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Senegal parrot is terrified of me

Discuss the methods and techniques of clicker training, target training and bonding. These are usually the first steps in training a young parrot.

Re: Senegal parrot is terrified of me

Postby Wolf » Mon Aug 04, 2014 3:59 am

Time will tell if the changes are indeed the result of puberty. Although her change in loyalties between your brother and yourself seems to support this, do not lose heart. Parrots have also been known to change loyalties for what appears to us without any known reason. Also, at some point your brother and yourself may have your separate places and if you keep her then it is possible for her to switch back to you, probably after a period of depression on her part, but not at all uncommon.
Kiki, my Senegal came to live with us and after the first two or three days decided that my Lady was going to be her special human. Not a problem for us at all, but due to her nature she started biting me every time she had the opportunity, which was a lot. It just meant that I did a lot of ducking and had to keep a very close watch on her so as to not get bit. After about four months of this she changed her mind and in the course of about 48 hours became utterly devoted to me and I then had to run interference for a few months between her and my Lady as Kiki suddenly took great delight in dive bombing her and kamikazee runs where she flew full speed directly into the back of my Lady's neck with the sole intent of trying to decapitate her with her beak. Today Kiki is happily bonded to me, but she is also trying to be nice to my Lady and at least accepts her as part of the flock.
Wolf
Macaw
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
Posts: 8679
Location: Lansing, NC
Number of Birds Owned: 6
Types of Birds Owned: Senegal
African Grey (CAG)
Yellow Naped Amazon
2Celestial Parrotlet
Budgie
Flight: Yes

Re: Senegal parrot is terrified of me

Postby Pajarita » Mon Aug 04, 2014 10:49 am

booster wrote:Pajarita - I realize that not everyone will believe people that work full time should have pets but I'd like to say in my defense that I do TRY very hard to be good to her. Now that I have her, I'm not willing to give her up but if that's what you're suggesting, I would like to exhaust any and every other possibility first. A lot of people in this world work full time and there are so many animals - parrots included - that need homes. I would love to quit my job and stay home all day to play with my birds, but I need money to provide food, toys, vet, and a house for them. In less than a year, I should be able to move on to a job that will let me interact with them more.

The "building up" theory makes sense. Can food alone do that, though? Because, as I pointed out to Wolf, her cage had unblocked access to light by the windows before her "freak out." Again, please don't think I'm trying to argue. I just a very analytical mind sometimes. XD

You perch and treat offering sounds like a terrific suggestion. I don't know if every Senegal is like this, but mine is certainly VERY stubborn. This may be what causes her to "reset" her behavior, now that I think of it. If she resents being "trained" like I'm doing.

As for the wings, I'm not sure how I can eliminate her panic because I don't know what causes it. I swear, NOTHING changes that I perceive. I know there IS something, but I cannot for the life of me pinpoint it. But I'll see how things turn out with perches on the outside of her cage and free treats.

I think what you said about everything contributing makes sense. I'll see if making these changes helps at all.


Oh, also: yesterday, curiously enough, she took a liking to my brother. He was able to pet her, roll her onto her back, and kiss her beak just like I used to be able to do. Do you guys this is part of her going through puberty? Does this puberty behavior ever end (I know the puberty itself does, but do the habit she develops while in puberty "stick")? If she's fine with my brother, will she ever love me again like she used to?


No, no, it's not that I think that people who work full time should not have pets (I think EVERYBODY should live with animals), it's that I think that they should only have animals that can have a healthy and happy life even when their owners cannot be there all day long. Dogs, cats, ferrets, guinea pigs, snakes, rabbits, etc do fine and you can have aviary birds if you are very careful, but parrots need at least one hour of one-on-one interaction, three more hours of out of cage time and constant company to be happy as well as keeping a strict solar schedule with full exposure to dawn and dusk and you can't provide this when you work full time. It's impossible. Nobody can. UNLESS you have a room with several parrots that get along and have somebody come over during the day to spend time with them (and check on them health-wise).

I know that you are trying very hard but nobody can keep pet parrots healthy and happy. I know for a fact I can't and mine live cage-free in a large room with good artificial light as well as natural, kept at a strict solar schedule, surrounded by other parrots and eating a fresh food diet! These are undomesticated species with physiological and emotional needs too complex for us to fulfill when we keep them as pets. We all shortchange them and that's God's truth!

I don't feed pellets because I don't believe they are the best dietary option for parrots but some pellets are better than others. Zupreem fruitblend pellets have all kinds of additives and artificial stuff in them that are not good for birds. The birds love them because of the high content of sugar and people are happy when they see the birds eating them so willingly, thinking that they are doing a good thing, but they are not healthy for them in the long run and free-feeding pellets (or any other high protein food like seeds, nuts, nutriberries, etc) means a diet too high in protein which makes hormonal problems worse (and it damages their liver and kidneys).

Her sudden affection for your brother does indicate that she has decided to 'go looking' for a mate. At this point in time, you are still a parent figure so you no longer have the same 'attraction' as you had before. But she might 'revert' and still prefer you after a while (the solar schedule will help with this because she will stop producing sexual hormones soon -the days are getting shorter now).

As to light, it's not only the solar schedule with full exposure to dawn and dusk, it's also the quality of the artificial light. A good full spectrum (CRI 94+ and Ktemp 5000-5500 with UVA and B output) helps their moods big time. This is because birds are the most visually oriented animals of all the vertebrates, they not only regulate their entire endocrine system by it, they see ultraviolet A light so, as windows have UV blockers and regular light bulbs have super low CRI and, usually, very high Ktemp, it affects their mood (they cannot produce as much 'happy' and 'reward' hormone as they would with good light), their appetite, their sleep, etc.

So, in conclusion, if you add the fact that she is clipped (the only way to dissipate stress and sexual hormones from their bloodstream is through flight), she is fed a high protein/sugar/artificial additive diet (free-feeding fruitblend pellets), she is exposed to too long days and too short nights (screwed up endocrine system and lack of rest) and her age (puberty) and you have a real bad result. I am not scolding or even blaming you. I am just trying to make you see what affects negatively a parrot and why your parrot has changed so much. But, like I said, everything is fixable. You will have to make lots of concessions on your personal life and look for solutions but when there is a will, there is a way.

Just one more thing and it's not against you, personally (I do understand where you are coming from), but you touched a sore spot with me: I really do not like it when people say: "If you are suggesting I rehome my bird, forget about it! I love her/him!" Love is not the issue. Loving them is easy, it's doing right by them that is hard. Like they say, you need to walk the walk and not only talk the talk and, when it comes to parrot keeping, the walk is real hard! And, if you can't, there is no greater proof of love than finding them a home where they will be healthy and happy. Rehoming is not a bad word. And, unfortunately, when it comes to parrots, it's a way of life because out of 1,000 parrots sold as babies, only 1 or 2 will live a long life with the same people (the HUGEST majority will die before their time). All my birds (with the exception of a few of my Spanish Timbrados) came from somewhere else and I can assure you they now have a better life than they had before - and the ones that were not happier here were rehomed to the exact kind of situation that would make them happy (except for a GCC/peachfront pair that is now coming back to me because I am not happy with the care they are getting).
Pajarita
Norwegian Blue
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 18705
Location: NW Pa
Number of Birds Owned: 30
Types of Birds Owned: RoseBreasted too, CAG, DoubleYellowHead Amazon, BlueFront Amazon, YellowNape Amazon, Senegal, African Redbelly, Quaker, Sun Conure, Nanday, BlackCap Caique, WhiteBelly Caique, PeachFace lovebird, budgies,
Flight: Yes

Re: Senegal parrot is terrified of me

Postby booster » Mon Aug 04, 2014 1:33 pm

I understand your feelings, Pajarita. I knew it would be difficult for my birds when I enrolled in school but... you'd kind of need to understand a little of my backstory in order to fully appreciate how absolutely necessary school was to my own well-being. I know it's selfish on my part, but it won't be for forever and I do MAKE time for my babies. I have them out all day long on Saturday and Sunday (which I KNOW won't make up for five days of scarcity, but I'm the doing best that I can).

As for the food, I did research the ZuPreem diet before I started feeding it to them. There's an abundance of misinformation out there, however, and many contentious opinions expressed on primarily message boards. I guarantee I can find someone, somewhere, that would disagree with you. And me. And Wolf. And everyone. I think I'll probably end up feeding them pellets (but I might switch to Harrison's since that seems to now be the unanimous internet opinion) and then keep the veggies as their morning "get up and go" food.

I hope that she eventually comes back to me. I'm happy that she and my brother are getting on well, as I said, but I'm so jealous! She was my baby! Haha. I know it's childish, but I miss her little "Huh?" exclamations every time I would ask her a question. Maybe someday.

As for your last point: please don't believe that I mean this in any negative way. I understand your point but I'm also a realist. I never said that I wouldn't rehome her. I said: "Now that I have her, I'm not willing to give her up but if that's what you're suggesting, I would like to exhaust any and every other possibility first." I would very much LIKE to keep her, BUT I'm willing to find her a home if I HAVE to. I don't feel like I've exhausted every possibility yet. At the moment that I reach that point, I would consider it - however much I dislike the notion. I know she deserves the best home imaginable but I ALSO know how much responsibility parrots are and how difficult they can be to place. Especially when my only medium to find her another home is in the classifieds sections of the newspaper. I'm not saying good homes don't exist... but I've volunteered at rescues before and I know the reality of most "homes." I know that most people won't take their dogs, much less their parrot, to a vet when medical attention is needed. I know a lot of people won't even keep up with basic shots for their dogs or cats, much less remain attentive to a parrot. If I found someone that I KNEW would take care of her, then I would consider it more realistically... But for the moment... her needs are being met now better than ever (since she has my brother, better nutrition, solar schedule, and growing wings).

And like I said, my school is temporary. This is for a certification so it won't require four years of intensive classes. I should be finished quickly and then I'll be able to adjust my schedule to potentially work non-daytime hours. In my opinion, this is similar to single parents who have to work two full-time jobs to provide for their kids. It may not be ideal, but it (hopefully) pays off in the long-run.

(: Again, I mean no disrespect!
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booster
Parrotlet
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is female
Posts: 16
Number of Birds Owned: 5
Types of Birds Owned: 1 x Senegal parrot
2 x Green cheek conures
1 x Cockatiel
1 x Quaker
Flight: Yes

Re: Senegal parrot is terrified of me

Postby Wolf » Mon Aug 04, 2014 3:58 pm

Correct me if I am wrong, please. But I am of the opinion that there are other birds in the home, is this correct? If your brother is able and willing to fill in with the birds for you as needed, there is no reason that you can't provide sufficiently for your Senegal ,so as to avoid needing to rehome her.
While I do believe that at this time you are dealing with puberty and this is the reason for her change in loyalties, do not lose heart in this matter. It is not uncommon for a parrot to switch loyalties for what appears to be no reason. This just means that no human knows why they sometimes do this, but I am sure that the parrot has a very good reason for it and she may in time revert back to choosing you as her special someone.
I don't feed my birds pellets, but this is just a personal choice, and not for any other reason. Like most things there is a time and place for just about everything, including pellets. The verdict is still out on what the long term effects of using pellets will be. So we will see.
Wolf
Macaw
 
Gender: This parrot forum member is male
Posts: 8679
Location: Lansing, NC
Number of Birds Owned: 6
Types of Birds Owned: Senegal
African Grey (CAG)
Yellow Naped Amazon
2Celestial Parrotlet
Budgie
Flight: Yes

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